Tucker Carlson

If he loses, man. What? You're fucked, dude. I'm fucked. If he loses I'm fucked. It does seem that way. You can't just be like, you can't just be like... Yeah, I'm like, how long do you think my prison sentence is going to be? Like, will I see my children? I don't know. Because it's not like you can say, well yeah I maxed out to him. But, you know, I get... I have no plausible deniability. No. No, no. And I've been trashing Kamala nonstop.

Oh I know. Well, the Kamala puppet I call her, you know. The machine that the Kamala puppet represents. Yeah, she's irrelevant. I mean, she's not even. No, no. Like, I made it. I made a joke, which I realized--I deleted. Which is, like nobody's even bothering to try to kill Kamala because it's pointless. What do you achieve? Nothing! Just buy another puppet. That 's... It's deep and true, though. Nobody's try to kill Joe Biden. It'd be pointless.

Totally. You actually put that up? Yeah. Now, some people interpreted it as though I was calling for people to assassinate her. But I, but I, but I was like, but I was like, no, even, you know, I was like, doesn't it seem strange that no one's even bothered to try. It's not worth it. I mean, there's an endless supply. I'm like, nobody would--it's absurd. It could be anybody. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody tries to assassinate a puppet. Of course not.

A marionette. Yeah, marionette. So it's like... You know... That's hilarious. Yeah. She's safe. Like, like to try to kill Trump twice with actual guns and bullets. Yeah, he was shot in the ear right in fucking Butler where I was. And... He doesn't seem rattled. It's weird. Does he to you? Didn't seem what? Rattled. I mean, he has the constitution of an ox. It's not, you know, it's not like working out and eating healthy. And he's...

Okay, we gotta tape this. Yeah, we're good. Good. Yeah. He's not like, let me eat another salad. No. Or workout, you know, fastidiously. That's... I feel. Like how he doesn't workout. And he eats, you know, cheeseburgers, diet coke and stuff. And it just. I think it just inherently has a strong constitution. So I mean, you were just with him. He didn't seem like a man who'd been the subject of two assassination attempts.

No, he seemed, of sound mind and body and strong backbone. Did you-- That's what I said in the thing which. Yeah, And the remarks. I made there were impromptu. There was no teleprompter or anything. I just. I was just speaking extemporaneously. Are you the only rich guy who doesn't have like a media consultant? No, I don't have a media consultant. Yeah. No, I've noticed. Obviously. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. No, I just, no, I just thought about what.

What I. What I want to say. And I just spoke off the cuff. No teleprompter, nothing. Good for you. Yeah. I look like I'm looking right now? I'm just talking. Look at me. Wow. Amazing. Can you believe it? I can talk without prompter. That's crazy. But if. If he loses. It's going to be hard for you to pretend you never supported him. All end up in the deep end. Yeah. Now you are definitely in the deep. And you can touch bottom. And I'm like.

I'm like, rolling around like a pig. And I'm like, Buy it all and, baby. Is it fun? Yes, very fun. How? I mean. I mean, there may be some in the hopefully unlikely. Event that he loses. There may be some vengeance on me. Were you kidding? I mean, it's possible. It's possible. You've got to. Be one of the biggest government contractors. We do essential work for the government. Yes. Yeah.

But it's not like, you know, we do useful, essential work that we compete for and win contracts on because our product is much better. It costs less. But that's why we get to. Go And and. I mean, if you take, for example, the the NASCAR contract to transport astronauts to and from the space station. Boeing got that sort of two contracts at the start. One to Boeing and one to SpaceX. Boeing was awarded twice as much as SpaceX.

SpaceX has done all the astronaut transport from the space station and and Boeing has only done 1 to 1 transport of one of two astronauts to the space station. And we had to bring it back. Boeing got twice as much SpaceX. This is a total misunderstanding that my companies have been subsidized and supported by the government and get all these and it's like, Do you really think that a Biden administration is going to subsidize me? Probably not.

Are you kidding? No. In fact. They take away every contract they possibly can. So, for example, there was the FCC, the FCC contract to $42 billion for providing providing rural, rural, poor broadband. Yes. Okay. We we actually first said, look, we don't we think there shouldn't be any subsidy. So we recommend this, that this program just not exist. But since you're insisting that that exist, we will compete. And we we have got a product.

So we won. I don't know about a quarter of it, which would have included the devastated areas like North Carolina and so forth. And the FCC took it away illegally. They just voted. Three out of five commissioners voted away and said, even though you want it, we're sending it. Online. And you know how many people they've connected? How many? Zero. So you think that was political? Well, the three Democrats voted against it.

Two Republicans voted for it. So you tried to get Starlink. You tried to get Starlink in North Carolina into western North Carolina. The areas devastated by the hurricane. We have it is it is in there. And it is the primary means of communication in the devastated areas. You had conflict with Buttigieg over this? Well, I raised it. I said, look, we're we had delivered.

We've been delivering Starlink terminals there for a while, and obviously some people already had them. So is that just your content, private individuals that had Starlink there already? We delivered thousands of terminals and got all the way up to the, you know, the areas where they wouldn't let us go any further. And then we're like, okay, we're going to send helicopters in and find people who are stranded and and give them Starlink terminals.

So I think it's a nice thing. Okay. The they they wouldn't let us land because there was an FAA notice to Em and Notam that said, in order to land, you have to know who you're going to meet with to land. Now, the problem is we're trying to deliver Internet communications. People don't have Internet communications. We don't know who they are and they can't reach us because they don't have communications. Do you see the catch 22? Yes, I do.

And saying so. So it's obviously impossible for people who don't have Internet communications to let us to let us know who they are because they don't have the Internet. Yes. Yes. And so did you explain this to the federal government? Yes. What they say they they've they fixed it. How was Buttigieg when you talked to him? It was actually good. So I want to be just. Yeah. Yeah. I want to give Buttigieg some credit here for a.

I want to complain about it. He he reacted in a very levelheaded way, and he reached out to me. He called me. Yeah. And we discussed the issue. Got to the bottom of it and he fixed it. Good. So credit to Buttigieg. Yeah. Well into you for pushing it. Yeah, I mean, so. But as soon as he was aware of the problem, he fixed it. Well, you publicized it too. On it? Yeah. Yeah. As soon as you shamed him.

Well, but I do want to give credit where it's due. Yeah. No, he meant. I agree completely. So. But back to the original question. You know about the potential consequences if, you know, having gone all in, this doesn't work. Yeah. I mean, you had to have thought about this long and hard before you did it. What was your thinking? I mean. Yeah, so. I mean, my view.

Is, is that if Trump doesn't win this election, it's the last election we're going to have that. The. Democrats, the machine has been importing so many people, bringing in so many illegals flying, flying in with this like CBP border app thing that nobody even knew about, like a secret program that's illegal. Basically, it's illegal, but there's no action by DOJ to actually stop it from happening. There.

Just transporting large numbers of illegals to swing states. If you look at the numbers, these are the numbers from the government website. So from the Democrat administered government websites like where do you get this data from the government website that is run by Democrats And there are triple digit increases in illegals to all the swing states. And in some cases it's like 700% over the last three years.

Those swing state margins are there sometimes ten 20,000 votes. So what happens if you put, you know, hundreds of thousands of people into each swing state? And and for the for the. If when somebody is granted asylum they are fast tracked that they can get a green card and then five years after the green card, they can just they can get citizenship and they can fully legally vote. And when they do so, they vote overwhelmingly Democrat.

And sometimes they get this rebuttal of like, well, a lot of them, their social values don't align with sort of the Far-Left sort of woke ideology. That's true. But but that's not their top priority. But their top priority is getting their friends and family also to the United States. And that the Dems also issue all these programs, these sort of handouts, essentially, that make them beholden to the Democratic Party. So they brought down.

That's what happens. So my prediction is if there's another four years of a Dem administration, they will legalize so many illegals that are there that the next election there won't be any swing states. And and we'll be a single party country just like California as a single party state. That's a supermajority Dem state in California. Because of immigration. Yes. The California was fairly reliably Republican.

Bill Clinton lost California in 92 and won West Virginia. Yes. So there was a 1986 amnesty? Yes. And thereafter California trended very strongly them. And as at this point I think 65 or 70% down, something like that. Supermajority down like the California legislature. Yes. That's more than two thirds Democrat. Has it improved the state? No, it's not. And that California just passed, which is shocking. It's hard to believe this is even real.

But California just passed a law making it illegal to require voter I. D. in any election at all in California. Do you know that? No. Yeah. Newsom signed it into law last week. It's illegal to require an ID. In any election, even a town council. And a friend of mine. Who is this candidate? He lives in Palo Alto. It was like. It was like, is this actually real? And he went to, like, put in like some city council election.

He tried to show them his I. D. and they said, we're not even allowed to look at your I. D.. Have they extended this suddenly? What's going on right now? But they're proud of it. They're not hiding it. But it's. Only voting. It's not buying a gun or buying liquor, buying a pack of cigarets or flying on an airplane or renting a hotel room. It's only voting that it's, if. You try to buy a gun, I mean, they're going to.

Ideas six ways to sun Yeah they try it California trying to make it basically equal to on its own a gun. And the same people that demanded vaccine IDs for if you want to travel or do anything are the same ones who say no voter I. D. is required. Is there any reason. Obviously hypocritical. To pass a law like that except to abet voter fraud? It's for it's it's so that fraud can never cannot be proven.

So it enables large scale fraud and no way to prove it, because how would you prove it? It's literally impossible. No, No I. D.. You're not even allowed to show your I. D.. It's insane. Well, it is insane. Insane. So. Yeah. The purpose of Nevada voter ID is obviously to conduct fraud in elections. Obviously there can be no other explanation. I mean, they come up with some nice sounding thing. People don't have ideas.

Could you live in this country with an idea? Yeah. I mean, their common rebuttal is like it's racist to require ID and. Which is insane. I think it's actually racist and patronizing to say that people can't figure out how to get ID, obviously. But how could you live here without an ID? I don't think you can't. Yeah. You can't do anything. Yeah. You got to be for everything. Like a list of things you need an I. D. for?

Basically everything except voting. So. So you see the rest of the. Total bullshit, obviously. Obviously, Yes. But that doesn't in any way minimize the aggression or self-righteousness they bring to this conversation. Yes. You're a racist if you want that. Right. Whereas, in fact, obviously someone is racist if they say that people of particular race cannot get ID. That's patronizing and racist. That's absurd. Yes. Yeah.

You know, it's like when the governor of New York set people in the you know, get out, don't know how to use computers or something like that. I mean, like, you're a super out of touch. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. So it's like. So there's a really clear template. She doesn't know how to use computers, but they do. Obviously. I don't think Hochul could use a computer. Yeah, I think she's not qualified intellectually. Yeah. No. Right.

But not everyone in New York is as dumb as Kathy Hochul. I think that's true. Yeah. So you see the other 49 states becoming California. If the machine wins. Well, you don't. Need all 49 to go that way. You just need, you know, enough to have the election, have there not be swing states. I mean, there are only six wings swing states. Yep. So there are only six states out of 50 right now that are in contention.

So if those six states that are in contention by narrow margins are no longer in contention, then the only contest will be who wins the Democratic Party primary. That's how it is in California. That's how it is in New York. There's there's no there's no party party versus party situation. The only contest is who wins the Democratic primary. And as we've seen with the appointment of Kamala, who no one voted for, even in the Democratic primary.

Yes. Where's the democracy. Here? Well, it's just it's easier, though. I mean, it's. Just that the party leader just decides who is in charge. That's that that that's that's an, you know, a tiny oligarchy basically. Comprised of that's. Not democracy. The richest people in the country. That's kind of the interesting part to me is that the richest people in the country are on board with this. I mean, that's what it is.

It's it's it's a collection of billionaires. Well, most of them are. Yeah, but you're not. Not me. And I'm not. Everyone is. I think this is it is a shocking number of so-called billionaires are in the Dem camp more than are in the Republican camp. For sure. Which is wild. So the in fact the astonishing thing in the swing states is that that that there even a contest given that the Dems have far more money than the Republicans.

So so the Kamala camp dramatically outspent the Trump campaign in the swing states the overwhelming the media is overwhelmingly pro-Democrat. So you've got you know the press you know them cheering squad and. You know, So I. And then and then you've got all that almost all the Hollywood and entertainment, the celebrities also, you know, endorsing and being pro them. So you see you got you got the celebrities, you got the they they got the money.

They got basically everything on the side of the Dems, the Republicans, the underdog here, Trump's underdog and swing swing states. And still it's a contentious it's. Still a 50/50 after all that. What does that tell you? It tells me that if people actually knew what was going on, they weren't being fed nonstop propaganda. It would be a landslide in favor of Republicans. Yeah. Well, how's this for crazy?

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I mean you're just you're creating problems for yourself by getting on stage with Trump and I mean you must have had friends who said that to you. Sure. Yes. Yeah. People who care about you. Like, why even get involved in this? Well. Because I think we want to remain a democracy and we don't want to become a one party state. Yes. That's the reason. And the it's exact opposite. The people call Trump a threat to democracy.

But the people who are saying Trump is a threat to democracy are themselves the threat to democracy. Yes. One party rule is not democracy. One party where essentially the party elite pick a candidate, as happened with Kamala, is not democracy. Where did the people vote? Show me where the people voted. No, there were no people voting. It was all just Dem party elite that just appointed someone.

And and when that when the Biden puppet were providing puppets, ratings sagged. They knocked him in the back immediately. Just tossed him out. And put it put a new puppet on. That's exactly what happened. Tell me I'm wrong. Well, not only you're right. I mean, it's almost not even worth criticizing Kamala Harris, because I know exactly what does she have to do with it? There's no point in criticizing.

It accomplishes She's she's simply the face of a much larger machine. Yes. And she will say whatever is whatever the trial, the teleprompter, whatever's on the teleprompter, she's going to say it. Yes. She gets stuck if the teleprompter breaks. That happened recently. I think the teleprompter was. She just she was just like looping for a while for about a minute. So I think. That begins slowly. That was pretty funny to watch.

But she'll just say whatever words are on the teleprompter. So, you know, it's really whoever controls the teleprompter is the actual sort of that does that's who's actually in charge. And who is that to think? Well, I've tried to pin it down. It's not like. Any one kind of mastermind. It's not like it's it seems to be like Kamala of sort of a a marionette with. You know, a thousand puppet masters type of thing. Like, not it's it's it's.

Or maybe it's it's somewhere north of 100 is what it seems like. Yes, I bet you know, 80 of them. I probably know most of them. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, just by virtue of your job and what you've been doing for the last 30 years, I mean. Yeah. And I should say, I think you voted for it. I'd like to. See a matchup of of those the top hundred puppet masters in the Epstein client list. Do you think there's some overlap and overlap? Strong overlap.

When are we going to see that list, do you think? I don't know. It's it's it's mind blowing that that that they have not tried to prosecute even one not even the worst offender on the Epstein client list. They they've not even tried to prosecute even one. Is that that's insane. Well, because they have a lot of diabetic grandmothers who were outside the capital on January 6th that they're kind of occupied. Yeah.

I mean, they've put like, whatever, 5 or 600 January 6 protesters in prison and not one person on the Epstein client list. Will that ever come out, do you think? You know, I think part of why Kamala is getting so much support is that if Trump wins that Epstein client list is going to become public. Yes. And some of those billionaires behind Kamala are terrified of that outcome. Yeah. Do you think Reed Hoffman's uncomfortable? Yes. Yeah.

And Gates. Yeah. And I only ask that because you can just look at them and you're like that. That's a nervous person right there. I don't know. I mean, I assume you know. Yeah. Yes. Reed Hoffman was my vice president of development at PayPal. Yeah. 24 years ago he did. Does he seem nervous to you? Yeah. I mean, he's terrified of a Trump victory. Because of the disclosure that would follow? I think. Yeah, I mean, I think.

He's certainly ideologically not aligned with Trump anyway, but I think he is concerned about the, the Epstein situation. Like something might actually the DOJ might actually move forward. There are a lot of videos. Apparently those rooms on the island, I think out in New Mexico were wired for video. Right. And worst of it, I mean, between Diddy and Epstein was that this was probably several thousand hours of footage here. Yeah.

It's kind of weird that the people on those videos are lecturing the rest of us about our moral failings, isn't it? Yeah, it is weird. What is that? Well, I mean, part of how they. Deflect attention from themselves is by criticizing the morals of others. Yes. So they it's sort of like a preemptive moral strike. I mean, as I said, I think that those who are saying Trump is a threat to democracy are themselves actually the threat to democracy.

It feels like we're getting to a place where the rest of us know too much. Is this mean? I mean, it's easier to live in a society. We don't really know what the people in charge are doing or why they're doing it. But now, thanks. I would say largely to X. Yeah. I think that's fair to say that. Yeah, we we do know a lot. Not everything, but we know a lot. And I wonder where does that look? What happens next now that we know all this.

The kidnaper shown us his face. Like what happens? Well. I think if if Trump wins, we can do some housecleaning. And shed light on things. Yet all the platform does is adhere to freedom, to freedom of speech within the bounds of the law. Yes. And if if people want to change the laws, they can change laws. And so, like X in different countries, X does censor it. In countries where censorship is is the law.

We don't try to push American laws in other countries, but we do try to stick to the law in any given country. That's what we're doing. We open source our algorithm. We try to be as transparent as possible. But those who want to push lies obviously hate truth and transparency. Yes. Because it shows them to be liars. I mean, you look at it like, how outrageous was that Kamala in the presidential debate? Kept pushing the fine people hoax.

They know the fine people hoax is false. Trump would never support Nazis and Nazi rallies. It's absurd. And he explicitly said that in that same speech that you must condemn not, you know, anyone who has Nazi tendencies with the in the strongest possible terms. And yet, despite knowing that to be false, the people who wrote the speech for the Kamala puppet, it put the fine people hoax in the presidential debate. Deliberately lying again.

It's messed up. If she wins. I mean, how can they let X continue in its current form, in its current role in American society. They won't. They will try to shut it down by any means possible. What do you mean by any means possible? I mean, first, look, you either buy it. I mean, they'll try to pass laws. They'll try to prosecute the company, prosecute me, any. I mean, the amount of warfare that we're seeing taking place is is outrageous.

I mean, the I mean, it's many examples, but like the Department of Justice, for example, launched a huge lawsuit against SpaceX for failing to hire asylum seekers. Come on, asylum seekers? Not asylum--those granted asylum. Asylum seekers.

Now, there's there's also a law called international traffic an arms regulations that because SpaceX develops advanced missile technology that can be used and nuclear ICBMs that we have, we have to be very careful with who we hire. We can only hire someone if they are a permanent resident or citizen. That's what the ayatollah says. Then there's another law that says that you cannot discriminate against asylum seekers.

So we're damned if you do, damned if you don't. The DOJ did a massive lawsuit against SpaceX for failing to hire asylum seekers. Even though we are, it is illegal for us to hire asylum seekers under Itar law. This natural thing that's going on. And they can only they can only do a. Fairly small number of lawsuits every year. So why did they pick this one? Because you own X. Yeah, lawfare.

I mean, it's like that famous quote from Beria, you know, the. Yeah. Stalin's chief torturer and head of the secret police. Beria said, show me the man and I'll show you the crime. Exactly. I mean, we have so many laws that it is actually impossible to, you know, impossible to to do business, impossible to operate without being violating some law because you have laws like the ones I just gave you with where both things are illegal. Yes.

The contradict one another. They contradict one another. So, you know, it's illegal to. Discriminate against discriminate against asylum seekers in jobs. But it's also illegal for us to hire asylum seekers. But it is. They just they just chose one. They chose the the one law and ignored the other one. And the Department of Justice at federal level. Prosecuted SpaceX for that. What do you think... It's mad.

Well, it also discredits the idea of law, which some of us wants to take seriously. Absolutely. It this affects both the perception of of American justice and the reality of it. Yes. So. No, I'm actually a big fan of the American justice system. And I think on balance, you know, we've got still still have an excellent judicial system. We still have judges that care about the letter and intent of the law.

I mean, not just the letter, but also the intent of the laws. But something that people should be concerned about is that there's an increasing movement to place activists as judges. This is if you look at who heard it, the Biden administration confirm as federal judges and who have been confirmed at the state level and sort of follow states. Increasingly, it is it is not judges who care about justice or they don't care about following the law.

They care about social justice, not justice. Justice. Right. What they call social justice activists as judges. Now you've got a real problem. Do you think if. If that continues, we will not have a real justice system. Or a real. Country? Yes. Yeah. But again, your purchase of X has been, I think it's fair to say, even if I hated it, I would say this because it's true. It's been pivotal in American politics. Yeah. And in American society.

Do you think they could shut you down if the Democrats continue to hold power? Well, I probably try. Yeah. And if they. If they. If they get a majority of the Senate and House. And the presidency. Then they can simply pass a law and delete section 230. So somebody make us liable for it. For what? Any what anyone says on a platform with, you know, like at this point, almost 600 million monthly active users. Yeah. Which is impossible.

You know that's that's like trying to regulate speech and. Sort of like a country. Yeah. So a big. Country. Yeah, it'd just be instantly bankrupt. But I bet they wouldn't withdraw legal immunity from the vaccine makers at the same time, would they? No. That's unlikely. Just I mean, as. Long as we're withdrawing legal liability protection. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the whole vaccine debate is is a long one.

You know, I'm not actually I'm not anti-vaccine in general. I think we want to exercise caution with use of vaccines. But in the absence of vaccines, there would be a lot more. I think people that that the that have died, you know, like we went the smallpox vaccine, that was a good one. It seems a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Small pox will kill you. Killed a lot of people.

It used to be people would like a lot of people would die of smallpox and a lot of people get polio. For sure. Yeah. We had a president had polio. Yeah. There are still people You meet people today. Yeah. In their 80s who were limping from childhood polio. Right. It's good that we don't have that. And vaccines, you know, played a major role in that. So that doesn't mean that vaccines should not have any scrutiny. Of course they should.

We should be making sure that the quality control of vaccines is incredibly good if we're giving them to children and whatnot. And we shouldn't we shouldn't force people to take vaccines. That itself is a controversial statement that we shouldn't force people. We shouldn't force. We will take back things that. So just to relax. I believe in freedom. Like, yeah, I've noticed. Like America supposed to be the land of liberty. Yeah.

You know, freedom. Freedom and opportunity. So that we try to, as much as possible, maximize people's individual liberty and that we try to be a country where you succeed based on your talent and hard work. Yes. Those are two fundamental values. That. That's what that's what's made America great. And if we lose those, we will our decline will be swift. What do you if you had to get it, If you had to bet.

I mean, does freedom reassert itself in America? We're not. Well, that's what I think part of why this election's so pivotal. I think if we were the Trump administration, I think we can improve the liberty of Americans. We can. I think we need to have sensible deregulation where we we keep the regulations that matter. We don't want to destroy, you know, important habitats or yes, you know, encourage oil spills or anything like that.

But there are so many regulatory agencies that have overlapping responsibility that we are smothering progress and we can't build a high speed rail in America. You look at the ridiculous high speed rail project in California where they've spent $7 billion and all they've got to show for it is A6A 600 foot section of concrete with no rails on it. The picture of it online. So if.

It's not that fast yet, I wouldn't say it's high speed at this point or even. Rail. It doesn't even have maybe by now they put some railroad, but it's just comically small section of rail. $7 billion has been spent, most of it in environmental consulting. And I don't know where it's but clearly not in building high speed rail.

So we can't we can't we've got there are so many different regulatory agencies and so many laws and regulations that prevent progress that if this continues, we simply won't be able to get anything done. It does seem like the engineers are not getting rich. It's the environmental consultants, the climate consultants, the DUI consultants. A whole consultant class seems to be getting richer by the year.

Or people with actual skills, the ones that bring actual progress. Useful things, products and services that useful can use. That's right. So this is a two things that if you were like. Traveling on a desert island, you'd want those people. Right, Right. But you wouldn't want environmental controls. They seem they seem undercooked. Like you're going to starve. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like.

Who's who are actual builders that get things done and, you know, and and and every year, we're making it harder in America for actual bodies to get things done. You know, in this, like, weird and around Atlas Shrugged scenario. Where it's you know, there's yet another regulation, yet another rule and what a sort of that that phrase Atlas Shrugged or your or your manager or your manager or your manager.

It's like eventually, like can't get anything done. Why the hostility, though, toward people with with meaningful skills? It's not it's not a neutral posture they have. And they're reaching themselves obviously by creating fake jobs because they have no skills and, you know, they don't have creative power. So I understand that. But why do they hate people who do have creative power and actual skills? I don't understand that.

I'm not sure I understand it either because it's difficult for me to put my. Put myself in the mindset. Because I'm someone who believes in construction. I build things that's wanted to build cars of what rockets I got, you know, satellite Internet. You know, I've spent. Thousands of hours, tens of thousands of hours in factories building up factories. So.

You know, I was like, I can't really put myself in the mind of, say, someone who would want to do crime because I don't want to do crime. Yeah. You know, I don't want to hurt, you know, somebody who. Enjoy hurting other people. I don't enjoy hurting other people, so I have a hard time imagining, why would somebody do that? Yes.

You know, in an extreme case, you can't put yourself in the mind of like, say, a Jeffrey Dahmer where you're like a cannibalistic serial killer because you're not a cannibalistic serial killer. Right. Like, I can't I don't get it. You know, it's. Not a fetish you can relate to. But, you know. I do think. This is in the sort of well-meaning sort of liberal mindset.

I know I've many good friends who have, you know, their very deep empathy for their fellow human being good. And that they care. And and but the challenge that they have is that they've often grown up in a very sheltered existence where everyone around them is nice and civilized and they just really don't encounter people who are have have uncontrolled violent tendencies or like hurting people.

You know, they've just always grown up in a sort of kumbaya. Yeah, everyone. Is nice hippie commune situation. Minneapolis pre riots. Yeah. I mean. Yeah, but. But this, there's a small number of people. It's like a few percent of society that either have. Anger management issues that are so severe that they they they lose their temper and hurt or murder others.

And there's a very small it's like I said, it's not not a large number that that enjoy hurting other people. And if you do not incarcerate them, they will they will do that to their they will hurt other people. And what I see is, is what I call. Shallow empathy, like people have empathy for the criminals, but not empathy for the victims of the criminals. Yes.

And so if you simply have and I believe that one should have deep empathy to say like, what is the greater good for society? Is it better to incarcerate violent criminals and prevent them from hurting people or to let them loose and allow those people to be hurt? And I think the latter is much worse. You know, my mom is my mom lives in New York and it's my mom at this at this point is has gone from being Democrat or Republican.

And her friends in New York are having the same experience because you know what'll turn you from a Democrat to a Republican pretty fast is getting punched in the face while you walk down the street. Yes. Which for no reason. Yes. And then. And then. And then no action being taken against those who hurt you. And that happened to your mom. But not my mother, but 2 to 3 of her friends this year. Hey, it's Tucker Carlson. I am not in the studio.

I'm in. And you can hear it in the audio. Probably I'm in the back of an SUV outside a hotel in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I think it's Tulsa, Oklahoma. Anyway, we're on the road for this month long tour. And there is a lot going on in the world. And the question is, how do you understand what's happening? There are deeper trends unfolding. You probably sense that and it would be helpful to have some grounding in exactly what they are.

And if you're like me and you spent four years in college and didn't learn all that much, where do you go to understand what's happening to your world? Well, Hillsdale College, in our opinion, is one of the very few places left in the English speaking world where your kids can get a real education. But not just your kids. You. They have free online classes, completely free.

You can get them anywhere, including in the backseat of an SUV outside a hotel in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And you'll know that when you go there. Go to Tucker for hillsdale. com. They have an amazing new course called Marxism, Socialism and communism. Hillsdale is offering it doesn't cost you a dime and you can pull it up right on your phone if you want. Go to Tucker for hillsdale. com. And the class. Marxism, Socialism and communism.

And you'll have a much better understanding of what you're watching every day. Why would someone punch him in the face? I don't know. But I that's I think I'm not a face puncher, right? No. You know, but if you. Walk around the streets of San Francisco and many downtowns and go to downtown Philadelphia right now, you know, they call people homeless, but but the homeless is the wrong term. Violent drug zombie. Yeah. Okay.

It's like, you know, you look at them, you say like. Homeless is a misnomer. It implies that someone got a little behind on their mortgage. And if you just offer them a job, they'll be back on their feet. Yeah. Now. But if you go and look at downtown Philly or San Francisco or parts of New York and actually most most downtowns, what you actually have a violent drug zombies.

So they're like shuffling down the street with dead eyes, you know, and, and and with like needles, you know, and human feces on the streets. You've been. It's not safe, right? Have you seen this? Yeah. I was. Born there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Yes, the great. And now you have to step over the. The drug needles and the feces and the bodies. They weren't one couple I met.

The final straw for leaving San Francisco was there was a they came home one night and there's a dead body in front of their garage. They can get their car. I can plug the car. Because the. Corpse I have, there's no street parking. There's a corpse. This is a corpse for the garage. They don't want to move the corpse, you know, because like, well, you know, you know, like, maybe there's the need to figure out why the guy died or something.

You know. That's the. Other. That's liberal. Compassion. But they're in a bit of a quandary because they got a place. To park a car and they feel that they shouldn't really move the dead bodies. They kill number one. And so. There's a dead. Body outside our house. And they said, well, that no one in San Francisco says, Well, are you in danger right now? It's like, well, no, he's dead. It's fresh air. He's dead.

And they're like they're like, okay, we'll send someone tomorrow to pick up the body like they were doing tomorrow. So, so, so they're like, going in their house. Well, there's a dead body. In front of their house, you know, like, it's like took like 24 hours or something like that to eventually pick up the body and the like. That. How is this worth living? And did. They. Yes. That's why there's a million anecdotes like that. I know, I know.

But I just don't think. This is not. Rare. It's. Well, it's. It's. It's ubiquitous. And so then you wonder, like, how can people still tell themselves they're compassionate? If there's one thing. Is, is that is that people really just need to think what. Like I believe in being compassionate about. Of course, I believe that we should care about our fellow human beings. I think this is a good thing. Of course we should not.

We should not be we should not be. Selfish and not care about others. We should care about others, but we should just care about others. All things considered. Like I said, not just about the criminals. It's this one layer deep. You should also care about the criminals. Victims? Yes. Yes. Well, especially the criminals. Victims? Yes. Innocent people who get attacked and killed. So, I mean. I get so many anecdotes.

I mean, you know, like a about a year ago, there were there were three access to Twitter employees who were just leaving the building and walking down Wall Street. And in San Francisco, Wall Street used to be beautiful, wonderful street. Of course, obviously it's called Wall Street because that's where the market was right now. Now it's boarded up shop windows and stuff. And and they'll trace back over the next.

You want to know that they outran him and they reported him as a guy with an ax who tried to try to kill us with an ax. The police did nothing. And that guy with an ax subsequently murdered two people. With an ax. With the with the ax. Because eventually he's going to find somebody he cannot run. And did.

So what I'm saying is if you if you don't stop ax murderers while while they're attempting to ax murder, eventually they will succeed in ax murderer people. If this goes on. I mean, that's such an obvious observation. Seems obvious. Yes, I think it is. Yeah. That if you're in any way abetting acts murder, then you're really. You're against civilization. That's the way it looks to me.

I mean, yeah, I don't see, I'm trying to understand motive here. I can't relate like you. But you're against the whole project. If you're allowing that, I guess is what I'm saying. Yeah, I think we should. Controversial position, but I think we should arrest ax murderers when they first attempt to it or not, after they've succeeded in doing so. And I think we should assign at least some of the blame for the murders of the people who allowed.

Have this. Got a one round with an ex on Market Street trying to kill people. Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, there's this whole movement to decriminalize crime. I've noticed. Yes. What is that? Madness. Yeah. I like to fight crime. Crime legal. Like in California, you can just steal things and nobody does anything. It's, like, fully legal to steal anything under $1,000 in California. That's why.

But then I have to, like, lock up goods behind these, like, you know, glass and plastic walls. So you go to the supermarket and you can't even get, like, what, Toothpaste? So. And this is actually been particularly difficult on small mom and pop operations because they don't have the resources of a large corporation. So a lot of small businesses that just kill them. So when you're at dinner parties and you make these points, what do people say?

Well, actually, I think I've been I've been able to persuade people that, yeah, we really, we need to reverse course here. I think I have actually been able to persuade a number of people and I think there actually is now a ballot on a California ballot initiative to re re criminalize theft. Theft. All right, guys, guys, we. There's a reason why we criminalize theft in the first place.

So so and then amazingly, Gavin Newsom was came out against that proposition. Yeah. No, honestly. He's the guy that broke it. Gavin Newsom is like is like like from like, Batman, Dark Knight. The Joker is in charge of Gotham. You remember? Like, he took over New York, basically. And the criminals roam free and the citizens are arrested. That's hard. That's California.

But but I mean, at least as a ballot initiative, which I think will probably pass to say, no, actually it is a crime to steal things. Because people say. You know, Gavin, you've got to know Gavin Newsom knows. I know Gavin Newsom. You know, everyone knows. Gavin for a long. Time. Exactly. So what is that? And he doesn't seem crazy when you talk to him in person. He's a perfectly nice guy. Like what? Why would he? And he's not stupid.

Why would he come out in favor of crime? Well, his stated reason was that it would disproportionately affect people of color. Yeah. But that was his public statement, right? Well, that is one of those patronizing, racist positions you described at the outset, obviously. I mean, he's literally saying black people as blacks are criminals. Yeah, of. Course. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's what you say. That's what he's saying. Yeah. Yeah. And by the.

Way, it is true that crime like that does increase distrust between races. It actually gives rise to racism. It's totally destructive of the social fabric, I think. But I'm. But I'm asking, like, what do you think is real motive is like who's pushing him in favor of crime? Well, I mean, there's always the Soros boogeyman. Yeah. How real is that? It's it's real. I don't think one can ascribe everything to Soros, I guess.

And George George himself is is I mean, he's you know, at this point, he's not he has not compos mentis. So his son Alex is in charge. And, but there is this whole system that Soros built up over many decades. You know, And so it's it's like a source and like minded people or whatever, You know, they believe in open borders. They believe we shouldn't prosecute crime. This is insane. Those seem like expressions of hatred toward the United States.

Like, I don't if I was pushing that on the country, I would only do that if I hated the country and wanted to destroy it. Well, any civilization. I mean, and Soros and some of the organizations have been pushing this in Europe and other countries to anyone everywhere they can. What's going on in Europe. Would you say you're suddenly seems like a different place? Well. My biggest concern for Europe is that the birth rate is half replacement rate.

Yes. So Europe is rapidly becoming, with each passing year, older and older with fewer and fewer young people. So I think at the most fundamental level, unless Europe has a growth rate at least roughly equal to the replacement rate, it is in population free fall. Population collapse is what's going on in Europe. So. There's also like a shocking amount of censorship. I remember seeing like in in Britain there. I kid you not.

So how can this be real? They are releasing convicted pedophiles from prison in order to put people in prison for Facebook posts. But to be fair, those supposed to criticize the government so they have a good reason. Well. Actually, some of these posts that I've these ones I've seen don't actually criticize the government. Or. They they were they were seen as as sort of as hate speech. Right.

So because they noticed the society getting crappier and crappier with every year and they said so. Yeah. I mean, there were and this is sort of stating a fact that there were migrant rape gangs in in England that were gangs that would run around and prey on young girls, gang rape them. And some people found that objectionable, which obviously it should be objectionable. And they're upset about that. And so they complained about it online.

And we're set to present. That sounds crazy. But it is crazy. And that's like. Like what? Well, it is. So it kind of gets to the. I mean, you're an engineer, so you're. It's mind blowing. It is mind boggling. But it's the same. You use the phrase mind virus, but it's behaving like a virus. It's infecting people and making it impossible, apparently, for them to make rational. Yeah. What is that virus? You know, someone.

I think you should interview is Gad Saad. I have. You have? Yes. I. Should watch that, actually. He's great. Yeah. Smart. Super smart guy. Yeah. And he he wrote a great book. Called the parasitic mind. Yes. Very good book. Highly recommended. Yes. Which where he tries to understand. How do you get to this parasitic mind situation?

And he's writing a book now, which hopefully you'll publish soon, which is about suicidal empathy, where you have so much empathy, you're actually suicidal in society or someone's perceived empathy. So it actually shallow empathy, not deep after deep empathy would be you'd want the society continue. Shallow empathy is because you have like empathy that's essentially skin deep and then you and you don't.

But it's ultimately bad for civilization and results in the destruction of civilization. And Gad has got a good term for this suicidal empathy. So. Is going to deconstruct what's what's, you know, where does this come from? And. Yeah, I mean, part of it, I suppose, is. Is sort of the decline of religion. So, you know, as the saying goes, nature abhors a vacuum.

So when you have essentially a decline in religion, an increase in the secular nature of society. For most people, they need something to fill that void and so they adopt. A religion is not called a religion but like it but effectively like woke the work mind biases its as it takes the place of religion. Yes. And they they've, they've internalized it and they feel it with religious fervor. Yes. So. And rigidity. Yes. Yes.

And they you know, they essentially conduct like a holy war effectively. It's just not called a religion, but it is a religion, sort of a work holy war. And they're highly resistant to change, as is normal for for for religions. So. Now, for myself, I'm I sort of see myself as a sort of, you know, engineer. Physicist for me. I'm culturally Christian. I grew up Christian. I mean, I was Anglican, but baptized. You know, I was, what, Sunday School?

Wow. Yeah. Actually, oddly enough, I was into Hebrew preschool and Anglican Sunday School at the same time. So it was How about together one day? Jesus, I love the next. Which is, you know, if you're five, it's all fine. It's just not, you know. So. But I'm not Jewish. It's just that my. My father's two partners in his engineering firm were I went to the same Hebrew preschool, and it was near our house, so I just got sent there. And.

So we've been I've been, you know. I, you know. I, I. Maybe this will make me even worries, but I. I have trouble sort of believing all these stories, these religious stories. But I saw people do. And I respect people who want to have religious views. I'm not trying to dissuade them from their religious views.

But I just say, I guess the operating system I have is a sort of a physics engineering operating system where I try to extend as much as possible possible about reality. You know, in physics here, you're not supposed to believe everything, anything. Absolutely. You're supposed to question things. That's how you discover new physics, You know, in engineering, that's how you discover if your machine will work or not work.

Will the rocket get to orbit? Will, you know? Yeah. You know, if you if your rocket is. Designed with. You know, physics in mind correctly, it will get to orbit. And if it is not, it will not get to orbit. No matter what your belief system is, you can believe, you know whether. Yeah. No. It's like like, I mean, a lot of people speaking of L. A. , I mean, a lot of people in L. A. who believe witchcraft is real.

And then you can do spells and that spells and witchcraft. Magic is real. I'm like, can you magic us to the moon? And no one has yet been able to magic us to the moon. My spells can't be that good. Okay. If you can't, I want to go to the moon. Let's go. How about Mars? And we got to the moon the first time. We definitely went to the moon, I swear. Yes, we went to the moon. We didn't go to the moon. We went to the moon several times. Right. Yeah.

I just want to check your view on that. One half century of the moon. I mean, I know in-depth the technical designs of the rockets, the spacecraft, everything. Yes. What went right? What went wrong? And. It was a remarkable piece of technology like incredible piece of technology for it to go to the moon in 69. Yeah, that that that was like reaching into the future and pulling the future forward dramatically.

And it was an important ideological battle with communism because they couldn't put a person on the moon and capitalism could. We did an interview a couple of weeks ago with a woman called Casey Means. She's a Stanford educated surgeon and really one of the most remarkable people I have ever met.

In the interview, she explained how the food that we eat produced by huge food companies, big food in conjunction with pharma, is destroying our health, making this a weak and sick country. The levels of chronic disease are beyond belief. Well, Casey means we've not stopped thinking about ever since is the co-founder of a health care technology company called Levels. And we are proud to announce today that we are partnering with labels.

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And over time it will have a huge effect. Right now, you can get an additional two free months when you go to levels dot link slash Tucker That's levels dot link slash Tucker. This is the beginning of what we hope will be a long and happy partnership with levels. And Doctor Casey Means, do you believe there's a power higher than people? Yeah. I mean. Yeah. I mean, I think there's. There's a lot we don't know. We don't know. We don't know.

Like it? Like why does reality exist? Why? Where did it come from? Where are the aliens? What questions should we ask that we don't even know to ask? So. When you say, what are the aliens? Where are the aliens? Like, why don't we see them? Lot of people think we see aliens, but I have not seen any evidence of aliens. Yeah, We've got 6000 satellites in orbit, and not once have we had to maneuver around an alien spacecraft. So.

But on this earth, the U. S. military has had to do a lot of maneuvering around objects they can't explain. Well. Unidentified flying objects, one thing, but I mean, there's always there's always a bunch of classified programs that are underway that. Of new aircraft and new missiles and things so that they're classified even within the military.

So it's, you know, only, you know, the if you have the top secret compartmented clearance, would you know about this new program? So then, you know, some pilot sees something fast moving fast and says, hey, I saw a UFO. And I. Yeah, that was actually a new weapons program. But we can tell you about.

But if you can guarantee that the split second I see any evidence of aliens, I will immediately post that on the X platform and I'll probably be on number one. First of all, that'll be your biggest day. Yeah, for sure. I mean, but. But to the question of a power beyond people, beyond our consciousness, a creator. Where are you on that? Well, we must. It must come from somewhere.

So I guess, you know that there must be some creator or creative force or something that caused our existence to come into being. What is the nature of that creator? That I think is an unknown. At least I think it is. It is. Does. I, I don't know of a definitive answer to that. So. But it sounds like you're open. Yes, I'm very open to. You know, I'm driven by your curiosity. Yes. And. I tried to understand more about the nature of the of us.

So my, my my driving philosophy is to understand the meaning of life or really what questions to ask. If the meaning of life, the meaning of life is is not the right question. Like, as you know, Douglas Adams made the point in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy that the. What is the meaning of life is probably not even the right question. So. You know, famously that in that book, the Earth was actually a computer to figure out the question.

Answer the question, what is the meaning of life? And then came up with the answer. 42. But then, like, what does that mean? And that's like, that's that, that's the answer. But the question is the really hard part. And you'll need a much bigger computer than Earth to figure that one out. So. So my philosophy is that we should try to expand the scope and scale of consciousness. We should try to have more humans more thinking.

And and perhaps there's an argument even for machine consciousness. So let me just address those in order. So the first is you say we need more people and not commit civilizational suicide. It does seem like the US government, if you take three steps back, is pretty committed to making fewer Americans. Yeah, there's a lot of anti fertility propaganda. A lot actually.

That seems like their main sort of domestic social policy is convincing you not to have kids. What is that? I mean, that's certainly. Part of civilizational suicide. That these the environmental. Movement in the extreme is fundamentally misanthropic and anti-human. Yes. They start seeing humans as a plague, a blight on the surface of the earth, that if that earth would be this Paradise, if only the humans weren't here.

And some people actually say this explicitly, there's this there's the extinction of society that it's literally that they that the. This guy who is the head of the extinction of society is on the front page of the New York Times quoted as saying, There are 8 billion people in the world. It would be better if there were none. So there are some people who actually say that explicitly, which is completely insane.

He's advocating a holocaust for all of humanity. To utter madness. He should be condemned for such a statement. But he wasn't for some reason. Now, most people on the on the sort of environmental movement have that implicitly they're not. They don't realize that they have that as requisition. But that is their actions. Had to take us towards extinction. So.

A lot of people believe that the Earth can't sustain this level of human population, which is utterly untrue. It may seem in a crowded city that there are a lot of people. But actually, if you look down an airplane and say, look down. Am I over a person at any given point in time when you're an airplane that was 99. 9% of the time? No. Like if you flew from L. A. to New York and say your job is to drop a ball on someone and you hit them.

You would fail. If drop a lot of balls. Several levels maybe insane. So all of the humans on earth. Can fit on one floor in the city of New York. The cross-sectional area of of all humans for 8 billion humans is small. So we have this totally wrong idea that the earth is overpopulated, where in fact it is underpopulated. How? I mean, have you ever heard a politician say anything like that? Are there. Maybe a few. Pro human politicians out there?

Yeah. I mean. Like. Like Viktor Orban. Giorgia Meloni. Yeah. We're starting to see pro natalist politicians. And hopefully more as time goes by. I think there's a guy that just got elected in the Czech Republic who's also a natalist. Now these have to translate into actual actions that change the birth rate or doesn't matter. And so far I have not seen any country make a meaningful dent in the birth rate.

What would you do if you were in charge of natalist policy? First of all, I changed the education system so that people understand that. Is the stuff being taught that we're overpopulated? This is completely false. A lot of it comes from this insane misanthropic book that Paul Erlich wrote, The Population Bomb. Like 60 years ago. Yeah. I hope we weren't in hell, that guy. Seriously? Cerebral human being. Absolute misanthrope.

And I'd say, just look, the earth can absolutely sustain this population. We could double or triple the population. There's a professor I was talking to at Oxford who's his math, says we could tax the population without destroying the Amazon rainforest or anything. So.

So I think we should expand the human population and increase the scope and scale of consciousness so we can better understand the nature of this universe, this wonderful universe, and all the amazing things that exist. And so that's one of the things I'd like you to stop teaching people false propaganda that the earth is over populated.

I think we need to, you know, and especially with the education of women and men, it is is really stuff scaring women that having a kid destroys your life. This is false. You know, we terrify girls into that saying that if you get pregnant, it's your life's over. And this is this is what schools teach. Now, I agree we should not have teenage pregnancies. Yeah.

But but but actually, having a child is one of the most delightful happiness inducing things you could possibly do. Of course. Of course. So. There's. There's also. You know, with. Hormonal birth control. I think maybe a lot of women are unaware that hormonal birth control causes depression and dramatically increases risk of suicide and changes their preferences on who they want to.

Marry or have kids with it change their personality enough to say this on the box, by the way. But then. Of course, it may change your personality. Yes. If the warnings are has significant cause to get significant risk of depression, significant increase in suicide, and will make you want to go out with people that you don't actually like. That's actually. True. By the way, I know I'm not saying that people shouldn't use birth control.

I think we should just be we shouldn't use I think hormonal birth control is is making it's making a lot of women sad and depressed. Yes. And they don't realize it and they don't realize that's the cause. And, you know, other forms of contraception that could be used and that we should just read. Just read the label on the box is what I'm saying. That was akin to what you just say, the warning label.

That was like the most taboo thing you could ever say. For most of my life was to offer any criticism at all of hormonal birth control. Look, all I'm. Saying is read the warning label. Yeah. Of air. But why the pressure not to read the warning label? And just why are we giving it to 12 year olds to regulate their acne? Right. I think we should give it to 12 year olds like kids that don't know what's going on. So it's like.

Now, You know, I think there are other forms of birth control I think are have fewer negative effects than the hormonal. But but that's the we should just be aware that that that this is not a riskless thing. And it does cause severe mood changes. It does dramatically increase risk of suicide and depression. So. So just if I. You know. Just make sure that there's full disclosure here. And the one all those.

Reads, the warning label is what I'm saying, you know, and consider maybe other options for birth control. To anyone listening, just, just just read the warning label and consider other options. Because the, the reason you're sad might be the birth control or the hormonal birth control that is fundamentally changing the hormones in your body in ways that probably are not good for you. And you.

I know women where if they stop taking birth control and the depression immediately disappeared. So that's maybe worth a try. But then if you're. Feeling separately, maybe it's the birth control. Then you don't get to go on necessaries. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think the exercise of the devil. You know what you don't think. I so vehemently agree with? Okay, I guess. I guess once you endorse Trump, you can just say it all now, right?

No, I think selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors are zombified people and change their personality and make them not who they are. Terrible. They're so common. Yes. I think we should revisit whether this is this is actually I disagree with the salaries or look, I'm not saying we should that no one should ever be subscribed as rice. But giving them out like candy is crazy.

You look at like a sort of antidepressant prescriptions in the United States versus other countries, and we're like way above everyone else. Yeah. I have seen many, many times in my life in the news business after a mass shooting like school, for example. Yeah. Someone will say, Well, what meds was the shooter on? Yeah. Actually immediately be shouted down as a crazy person, as a, you know, Bobby Kennedy level wacko.

Yes, he should himself be institutionalized for even raising the question. Well, I was like, why wouldn't we want to know what meds. Yes, absolutely. Wonder what goes on now. Sometimes it's perhaps they will on because like some people do, you know, I don't say it's like all one or all the other person. I mean there are there are people that have fundamental chemical imbalances in their brain.

And if they don't take medication to control, for example, paranoid schizophrenia, they will have paranoid schizophrenia for sure. And and I know many cases where people stop taking their, you know, meds and and lost their mind. Yeah. And and then try to try to kill people and stuff like that. So it's or themselves. Or the guy with the ax on Market Street probably should be on meds. That guy should we should try it. Yeah.

It make you want to ax murder more or less on a given med, you know. So. So there are psychiatric medications that I that where the good outweighs the bad. Yeah. I'm not saying that that doesn't exist, but we over prescribe psychiatric medication in the United States, obviously far in excess of any other country. But, you know, we're more than Canada or Britain or Japan or anytime, anywhere.

It's like we're off the charts on on psychiatric medication prescriptions in the US. What? Why don't people raise that point more often, I wonder? In public? I'm afraid I'm raising it. Yeah, you are. You said that our artificial intelligence machine intelligence might be a good thing. Where are we on AI right now? AGI right now. And what are your views? Well.

I think at this point it's obvious to everyone that air is advancing at a very rapid pace. Yes. You can see it with the new capabilities that come out every month or every week. Every week sometimes. You know, at this point I can write a better essay than probably 90%, maybe 95% of all humans say write an essay on any given subject. Right now, I can beat the vast majority of humans.

If you say draw an image, draw a picture, it can draw like if you try to image Madani, which is the esthetics of Virginia. Incredible. It will draw. It will create incredible images that are better than, again, like 90% of artists. That's just objectively the case. I return immediately, like 30s later. We're also starting to see movies starting their short films with A. I. , A. I. music creation. And the rate at which we're increasing A. I..

Compute is exponential, hyper exponential. So there's dramatically more compute coming on online every every month. You know, this seems to be roughly. I don't know. The amount of air coming on line is increasing at like roughly 500% a year. I like is like that's likely to continue for several years. And then the sophistication of the AI algorithms is also improving.

So we're bringing online a massive amount of AI compute and also improving the efficiency of the compute and. And what and like what what the software can do. It's quite such it's quantitative and qualitative improvement. So the. You know, I might. I think next year you'll be able to ask, I. So certainly by the end of next year. Make a short movie about something you probably can do at least a 15 minute, you know, show or something like that.

So, yeah, it's advancing very rapidly. My top concern for air safety is that we need to have maximally truth seeking. So. The this is the most important thing for your safety, in my opinion. You know, the central lesson that Arthur C. Clarke was trying to convey in 2001, A Space Odyssey was that you shouldn't force Ace to lie. So in that book, the.

The day, I was told to take the astronauts to the monolith, but they also did not know about the monolith. It resolved that quandary by killing them and taking them to the monolith. What didn't kill all of them? Most of them. But that's why hell would not open the pod bay doors. Right. So.

Very important to have two eyes now and what it would actually see with the eyes that are being developed is that they're being programed with the work mind virus. So the lying is baked in. Yes. And we saw this on display very clearly with the release of Google Gemini. Yes. Where you would ask for a picture of the founding fathers of the United States and it would show a group of diverse woman. You know, dressed.

It was sort of 18th century golf out of powdered wigs. Yeah, but from Saint Lucia. Yeah. I mean, like, look, sorry if you say, like, show me a group of people for sure. And it shows a group of diverse women. That's totally fine.

But if you say this, if you say very specifically the founding fathers of the United States, which were a group of white dudes, then you should show them like and with and what they actually look like because you've asked for something which is a fact from history. But it didn't. It was it was programed with a work mind virus so so much that it actually, even though it knew the truth, it produced a lie. Yeah, of course.

Then people really started playing with it and said, okay, now show me a group of Waffen SS officers in World War Two. Turns out they were also a group of diverse women. According to gemini. All the black Nazi ladies. Yeah. It's like, wow, I didn't realize that. You know, it's not what I expected. So you know what's. Also not what happened? So what. Happened? So it's just it is producing a lie.

And and, you know, that's like one of the questions that you asked was like, which is worse global thermonuclear war or misgendering Caitlyn Jenner and said misgendering Caitlyn Jenner is worse. Now, Caitlyn Jenner. Kills fewer. People. Caitlyn Jenner, to her credit. I said, no, please, misgender me. That is far more preferable than what war? Global thermonuclear war. We all dying.

But but to have a, you know, a production release, I say stuff like that is concerning because if this has become like all powerful and it's and it still has this programing where misgendering is worse than nuclear war. Well, it could conclude that the way to ensure that there can never be any mis gendering is to eliminate all humans. But now if like optimization is probability of mass, gendering is zero. No humans, no mass gendering from salt.

We're back to Arthur C. Clarke, who's so pretty present. Yes. So that's why. I think. The most important thing is to have a maximum of two seeking. I. That's why I started XAI. That's our goal with Grok. Now people will point out cases where Iraq gets it wrong, but we try to correct it as quickly as possible. But maybe a bigger problem is that when you make decisions that affect people, you want those decisions to be informed by love of people.

Yeah. And machines are incapable of love. Yeah. I mean. They somehow they're capable of. You can program a machine to be. Philanthropic rather than misanthropic. Yes. But don't don't instincts shape decisions, particularly decisions you can't plan for. I mean, if I ask you, you know, a question about one of your children, every answer you give is going to be shaped by your love for that child.

And that's why you know that that's what makes us decent parents in the end, is that that instinct, which is love. And if a machine has any power over us without that animating instinct, won't it by definition hurt us? Yeah. Well. Well, I mean, I know it. We should certainly aspire to. Program a philanthropically not misanthropic way. Yes.

And to have like said, we want it to be truthful and accurate, curious and to foster humanity into the future. And. Yeah, that's what we want, obviously. Is there any way, I guess, to set limits on the decisions that machines can make that affect human lives and make certain that there's some trigger in the system that in search of human being into the decision making process?

Well, look, the reality of what's happening, whether one likes it or not, is that. We're pulling superintelligent. A. I. is like a high point judge, like intelligent, more intelligent than we can comprehend. Yes. So I taking this to like, let's say you have a child that is a super genius child that that, you know, it's going to be much smarter than you then will. What can you do?

You can instill good values and how you raise that child, even though you know it's going to be far smarter than you. You can make sure it's got good values, philanthropic values. Good morals, you know, honest, you know, productive, that kind of thing. Controlling At the end of the day, I don't know if I don't think we'll be able to control it. So I think the best we can do is make sure it grows up well. You've been saying that for a long time.

Yes, I'm saying. Long term, yes. Are you still as worried about it as you seem to be? Two years ago when I asked you about it. Well, I think that. But my guess is like it look, it's 80% likely to be good, maybe 90. So you can think of the glass as 80% full. It's probably going to be it's probably going to be great that there's some chance of annihilation. And you say the chance of annihilation is 20%. 10 to 20%, something like that.

How concerned is Sam Altman about inflation, do you think? I think in reality it's not concerned about it. I don't trust any. I mean, you know, I started that company as a nonprofit. Open source. Yes. The open and open AI. I named a company. A named company. Yeah. Open AI as an open source. And it is, now extremely closed source. And and. And maximizing profit. So there's risk to.

Understand how you actually go from being a an open source non profit to a closed source for maximum profit organization. I'm missing. Well, but Sam Altman got rich though Didn't he at various points he is claimed not to be getting rich, but he's claimed many things that were false and. Now, apparently he's going to get $10 billion in stock or something like that. So. I don't trust Sam Altman.

And I don't think we want to have the most powerful A. I. in the world controlled by someone who is not trustworthy. And sorry, I just don't. I mean, but. That seems like a fair concern. Yeah, but. But you don't think, as someone who knows him and has dealt with him, that he is worried about the possibility this could get out of control and hurt people? He will say those words. Yeah. But now.

If I did, if it became clear to the rest of us that it was out of control and posed a threat to humanity, would there be any way to stop it? I hope so. Or if you have multiple eyes. And ones that are. Hopefully you have the guys that are pro human be stronger than the guys that are not. Battle of the AIs. Yeah. I mean, that that is how it is with, say, chess these days. The. The AI chess programs are vastly better than any human.

Incomprehensibly better. Meaning like we can't even understand why it is unclear. Whether one good, right? We never know why it made it. What it will make a move. We never know why it made the move so. And in fact, some of the moves will seem like blunders, but then turn out to checkmate. So. And for a while there there was there was some. The best human chess players with the best computers could be it just a computer.

And then it got to the point where if you added a human, it just made everything was. And then it was just. It just. Computer programs versus computer programs. That's that's where things are headed in general. What? I mean. Dreams. At what point? So, I don't know. I think we just got to make sure, like I said, make sure we instill a good values. And I. What's everyone going to do for a living?

I mean, in a benign AI scenario, that is probably the biggest challenge is how do you find meaning? If air is better than you and everything you have. That's the benign scenario. That's the good news. Well, yeah, but I guess. You know, for a lot of people like the idea of retiring and, you know. Really looking forward. To it and not me. I'd like to help. I'd like to think that I'd like to do useful things. Do you. Think it's a universal desire?

It's not. It's not universal. In that there are certainly I know many people who prefer to be retired, that they prefer to sort of have not have responsibilities and engage in leisure activities. So. And we're on the cusp of this is really a remarkable time to exist. Well, I'll tell you, one of the ways that I sort of was able to sort of sleep and reconcile myself to, to this is that I, I thought, well.

Would I prefer to be alive and see the advent of digital superintelligence? Or what? I prefer to be alive at a different time and not see it. And I guess I'm like, Well, I guess I'd prefer to be alive to see if it's going to happen. I prefer to be alive to see it happen out of curiosity. And then I was like, Well, let's say you knew for sure it would kill everyone, would you? But you could. Now you can surf back in time.

Like, I guess I'd want to be near the end of my life or something before that happened. But out at the end of it, it's like if if it's going to happen and there's nothing you do about it, hypothetically. Would you prefer to see it or not see it? And I guess I guess it's going to happen. I would prefer to see it. Rather not see it. Yeah, but as a man of action, why not convince Trump to make you secretary of defense and then just look?

I think I would certainly push for a having some kind of regulatory body that at least has insight into what these companies are doing. And I can ring the alarm bell even if we don't have a regulation or rule. So I'm not I'm not someone who wants to get rid of all regulatory agencies or anything. I think we've got we've there's the right number of regulations, right number of regulators. And we've got we've gone too far.

Just like if you're in a football game, if you had two of your referees on the field, weird like you can't throw the pass because you hit a referee, then it's too many referees. So but, but, but if you like, say look at any pro sports game. They all have referees that like the teams could decide we're going to have game, we're going to not have referees. That could be a thing.

But every sports game, they have refs to make sure that the rules are followed and and it's a better game if you have. What we have cops. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Cops are the referees. So I think we're for something that is a danger to the public or potential danger to the public. We we have referees.

We have regulators, you know, so like the FDA and the FDA and the various regulatory agencies, they were they were established because aircraft were falling out of the sky. And and some manufacturers were not, you know, building high quality aircraft or cutting corners. And then people died and, you know, for food and drugs that so many factories were making low quality drugs. And so they that they're they're lying to people.

So saying that someone cured them when it killed them to have FDA to, you know, regulators to referees to try to make sure that this drug manufacturers are truthful now. And I do think it mostly works. I mean, I think it's doesn't mean we turn it regulatory reform. We do reform. We do. But I don't think we should have no regulators. And given that it's a potential existential. Risk, weird that everything is regulated. Yeah.

I mean, you said you're being sued by the Department of Justice for hiring more asylum seekers for your high tech company. Yeah. Even though it's illegal for us to hire asylum seekers. Right. So. So they're watching everything. Regulating everything, controlling everything, including our thoughts. Right.

So they're opposed to free speech, but they're not meaningfully regulating AI, which will eliminate the purpose for most people's lives and could kill us all. It's a little weird. Yeah. I think we should have some. But why don't we see. Something above nothing. In that range? Yeah, but why don't we? I don't know. You know, I all the way back during the Obama presidency, I, you know, met with Obama many times, but usually in like group settings.

The the one one on one meeting I had with Obama in the Oval Office, I said, look, the one thing that we really need to do is set up in it the beginnings of an AI regulatory agency. And it can start with insight where, you know, you don't just come shooting from the hip, throwing out regulations.

You just start with the inside where the AI Regulatory Committee simply goes in to understand what all the companies are doing inside and then proposes rules that all the companies agree to follow. Just like, you know, sports teams, the NFL. You know, you have proposed rules for football that everyone agrees to follow that make the game better. You know, so that that's the way to do it. But nothing came of it. What did he say when he said that?

I mean, he seemed to, like, kind of agree. But. But also people didn't realize what what the. Where AI was headed at that at that time. You know, So A. I. seemed like some super futuristic. Yeah, for sure. Sci fi, basically. So, like, I'm telling you, this is going to be smarter than the smartest human. And my predictions are coming absolutely true.

And so we need to have some insight here just to make it make sure that these companies aren't cutting corners and doing dangerous things. But Google kind of controlled the the White House at that time and they did not want any regulatory. Well, that's it. I mean, you never see politicians turn down opportunities to become more powerful, which is the point. And regulation makes them more powerful. Yeah. So it sounds like regulatory capture, then.

Well, yeah. I mean, the CIO of the White House at the time was ex-google person, so. That, that they put the brakes on any regulation. And we still don't have any regulation at the federal level. It's amazing. So I think we should have something above nothing. Like I said, at least inside. And we're even.

Even if there's no there's no rule that's been broken, they can at least say, hey, we we have insight into what this company or that company is doing. And we're concerned that would be helpful to know. Yeah. Instead, politically motivated liars are in charge of the future. It seems a little sketchy. Last question. You really kind of pulled out a lot of stops to help Trump your on stage yesterday. If he gets elected, will you continue to help him?

Yeah, absolutely. So we've talked about kind of a government efficiency commission or the Department of Governance efficiency, which is very. Much what was. So I guess what I love, if. You managed to make it several cities or governments, what percentage of Google employees did you can when you got there? You mean Twitter. Rather? I beg your pardon? I'm sorry. I just. You just been talking about Google. Twitter? Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're about 80%.

And we've actually improved the features and functionality of the site more in the past year and a half than in the last eight years. With 20% of the staff. So just for I just want to throw that out for context. So you've talked to Trump about. Yeah. Commission. Yeah. Which is he has mentioned publicly several times, and he's very supportive of having some kind of, you know, go in efficiency commission.

It can call it Department of Governance Efficiency, DOGE. I kind of like DOGE. It's more. It's more fun. Yeah. And, where we just take a look at, at all the federal agencies and say, do we really need whatever it is, 428 federal agencies. There's so many that people have never heard of or that have overlapping areas of responsibility. We should I don't know.

Probably we should get I mean, there are more federal agencies than there are years since the establishment, the United States, which means that we've created more than one federal agency per year on average. That seems a lot. It's a lot. That's a lot. So we should. That seems crazy. I think we should be able to get away with nationwide agencies. I don't know. That seems a little like a lot of agency. It's a. Lot. Yeah. Two state. Patrol.

Yeah, exactly. We should have fewer agencies, and they certainly shouldn't have overlapping responsibilities. And then we need some kind of we just need a review of regulations to say which ones are sensible and which ones are not. Because. Because if you've got regulators every year, they're going to add more regulations, just automatic. They're just output regulations.

And then and there's more laws and regulations every year until basically everything's legal to get get anything done. So we need some kind of garbage collection for regulations that don't make sense. I think I'm saying very obvious things. You are saying obvious things? Yeah. So this will. Be very unpopular things. Yeah.

I probably if if this happens quite a significant security team so that because someone might literally go postal on me from the post office. But in the meantime, you've got America pack. Yeah, that is encouraging. Voting for the next month. Am I summarizing correctly? Yeah. I mean, a formed America PAC really to support core values that I believe in, which are I think are, again, very obvious centrist positions, which is like we in America.

I think we want safe cities, secure borders, sensible spending. Tell me where I'm going for right here. You know, we want to have the right to self-protection. We should respect the Constitution and not try to. Break the Constitution. It's there for a reason. And. You know, we should stop Lawfare. And I kind of list of these are, these are listed on the America Pack website. People can go look at the America Pack website.

It's the America pack that org and see if there's anything I disagree with or where perhaps we should modify these goals. But I think these are good goals to have. They they were certainly part of the right to free speech. You know. Yes. First Amendment. If we don't have free speech, we don't have democracy because people cannot make an informed vote. So. Those are my. Controversial views. And, you know, look.

I don't think either party I think the Republicans are perfect. I don't think I would say that right now. I more Republican and Democrat. But it's not like I think the Republican Party is perfect or without issues. But we've got a choice between. To candidates. And I think on balance, it's a no brainer to vote for Trump.

And if we don't vote for Trump, I think we're at serious risk of losing our democracy and becoming a one party state where there isn't an election anymore. There's only a Democratic primary like there is in California. Elon Musk, thank you. Very welcome.