Qatar Economic Forum 21 juin 2022 John Micklethwait interviewe Musk au Qatar Economic Forum sur l'acquisition de Twitter, le risque de récession, les suppressions d'emplois chez Tesla et les contraintes d'approvisionnement.
John Micklethwait interviewe Musk au Qatar Economic Forum sur l'acquisition de Twitter, le risque de récession, les suppressions d'emplois chez Tesla et les contraintes d'approvisionnement.
Transcription Qatar Forum Interviewer
And we now have a man who, by many measures at least, is the world's greatest capitalist at the moment, Elon Musk. Thank you very much for coming and talking to us. You could argue at the moment that us in the media, we have at least three Elon Musks to deal with. We have the proposed buyer of Twitter, we have the CEO of Tesla, SpaceX and much else. And we have Musk, the emerging political force. And that's before we discover or discuss all the different provocations and tweets and so on. But maybe we can run through those three. And let's begin with Twitter. And I suppose my question for you is what is the Status of the 44 billion deal, $44 billion deal to buy the company. If you look at the deal spreads at the moment, the investors seem to be betting that it won't happen, I suppose. And right here you have the Qataris who are amongst your backers. What are you going to say to them and to us?
Elon Musk
Well, first of all, I'd like to say, your highness, your excellencies and distinguished guests, thank you very much for hosting me virtually. It's an honor to be here or be there virtually. And I actually wish I could be there in person. So with respect to the Twitter transaction, there's a limit to what I can say publicly, given that it is somewhat of a sensitive matter. So I like to be measured in my responses here, such as not to generate incremental lawsuits.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
Unfortunately, that seems to be a risk you sometimes manage to overcome.
Elon Musk
Yes. Deposition minimization is, I think, important.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
Have you. Have Twitter given you enough information?
Elon Musk
Well, there are still a few unresolved matters. You've probably read about the question as to whether the number of fake and spam users on the system is less than 5%, as Twitter claims, which I think is probably not most people's experience when using Twitter. So we're still awaiting resolution on that matter, and that is a very significant matter. So we're awaiting resolution on that. And then, of course, there is the question of will the debt portion of the round come together and then will the shareholders vote in favor? So I think those are the three things that stand in the, you know, that needs to be resolved before the transaction can complete.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
What about the general state of the economy? Does that weigh on you when you think about this? I mean, you described it, you have a super bad feeling about the economy. Are you still in that position? I just said to you earlier, Joe Biden has just come out and said that a recession in America is not inevitable. How do you feel about the economy?
Elon Musk
Well, I think a recession is inevitable at some point. As to whether there is a recession in the near term, I think that is more likely than not. Certainly isn't. It's not a certainty, but it appears more likely than not. What do you think?
Qatar Forum Interviewer
I'm with you. I agree with you. I think it's more likely. Can I ask you one particular thing to do with the Twitter bid, which is, you know, you are one of the biggest and fastest growing investors in China, Tesla, you've talked about it being a third of your sales going forward. You're now buying Twitter, the kind of public forum for free speech. The Chinese historically don't tend to be very enthusiastic about free speech. Are you worried about whether you can keep those two particular horses running? Is buying Twitter going to get you in trouble with the Chinese?
Elon Musk
Well, Twitter does not operate in China and I think China does not attempt to interfere with the free speech of the press in the US as far as I know. I assume you're not under pressure to Bloomberg to
Qatar Forum Interviewer
from China.
Elon Musk
So I think there's. I don't think this is going to be an issue.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
And in terms generally of that issue of freedom of speech and Twitter, you've talked about Twitter being making it even freer and letting more people onto it. Is there a limit at all to who you think should be allowed onto Twitter?
Elon Musk
Well, my aspiration for Twitter, or in general for the digital town square, would be that it is as inclusive in the broader sense of the word as possible, that it is an appealing system to use. So, I mean, ideally I'd like to get like 80% of that's in North America and perhaps, I don't know, half the world or something ultimately on Twitter in one form or another. And that means it must be something that is appealing to people. It obviously cannot be a place where they feel uncomfortable or harassed, or they'll simply not use it. And I think there's a big difference between freedom of speech and freedom of breach in that one can obviously, let's say in the United States, go in the middle of Times Square and pretty much yell anything you want. And you, you'll annoy the people around you, but you're kind of allowed to just sort of yell whatever you want in a crowded public place, more or less apart from this is a robbery probably that would get you in trouble. But then whatever you say, however controversial, does not need to then be broadcast to the whole country. So I think generally the approach of Twitter should Be to let people say what they want to do within the bounds of the law, but then limit who sees that based on any given Twitter user's preferences. So if your preferences are to see anything or read anything, then, well, you'll get that. But if your preferences are, well, you prefer not to see comments that you find offensive in one form or another, then you can have that as a setting and not see it. But I think one way or another, one needs to take the steps that entice most people to want to be on Twitter and enjoy it and find it informative and entertaining and funny and just something. And useful. As useful as possible.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
It sounds like you want to be involved. Is your plan to be CEO of Twitter and if you do that, would you still keep being CEO of Tesla and SpaceX?
Elon Musk
Well, I would drive the product,
Qatar Forum Interviewer
which
Elon Musk
is what I do at SpaceX and Tesla. So I drive the product. And technology that I'm called the CEO or something else is much less important than my ability to drive the product in the right direction.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
Can I jump towards Tesla then? Most people, it's very obvious you have changed the car industry in a dramatic way. I'm quite intrigued by one thing, which is your competitors. Where do you see competition coming from? Do you see it coming from the old car makers? Coming back at you, I just saw a forecast that maybe in a couple of years time Volkswagen would be bigger than you in electric cars. Or do you see it coming from new place? Do you believe that or not?
Elon Musk
I believe that forecast was from you.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
Yes, it was.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
And do you agree with that?
Elon Musk
I would not agree with that forecast.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
But do you see people like Volkswagen and General Motors and people like that as the opponents? Or do you see people like China, the new Chinese companies? Where do you see the most vibrant competition in electric cars?
Elon Musk
I have to say that I am very impressed with the companies, the car companies in China, just in general with companies in China, I think they're extremely competitive, hard working and smart. And I think there's going to be just a massive wave of Chinese products going out into the world. There really are. But for example, I think almost all the iPhones are made in China by contract manufacturers for Apple. But I think we'll see just a large wave of of products being exported from China in many industries.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
In electric cars, do they have an advantage at all? Yeah,
Elon Musk
yeah, no, I do think. Well, I should say from a Tesla perspective, we don't really think about other competitors. Our constraints are much more in raw materials and being able to scale up Production. So our constraints are not imposed upon us by competitors, but rather just imposed upon us by the realities of the supply chain and building up manufacturing capacity. So, I mean, as anyone knows who has tried to order a Tesla, the demand for Alcarus is extremely high and the wait list is long. So our, and this is not intentional, we are increasing production capacity as fast as humanly possible. So like I said, we really don't think about competition at all. We just think about how do we address the limiting factors in the supply chain and in our own industrial capacity. Basically, we need to build the factories faster and then we need to look ahead to whatever the choke points are in the whole lithium ion battery supply chain, from mining and refining to cathode and anode production and cell formation.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
Can you set the record straight on one thing, which is this issue about the layoffs? I think you said initially that Tesla 10% of the workforce would be cut, then 10% of salaried would be cut, then salaried would stay flat and overall headcount would go up. What is the number? I know there's already, I think, been a lawsuit about the 10%. Is 10% the goal to reduce the workforce? Or what is the number that we should think about or that you're planning?
Elon Musk
Yes. So Tesla is reducing the salaried workforce by roughly 10% over the next probably three months or so. We expect to grow our hourly workforce. It's quite clear that we expect to grow our hourly workforce, but we grew very fast on the salary side and we grew a little too fast in some areas. And so it requires a reduction in salaried workforce. And we're about 2/3 hourly and 1/3 salary. So I guess technically a 10% reduction in the salaried workforce is only roughly a 3, 3.5% reduction in total headcount.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
I think that number is important legally, isn't it? Because I think people are trying to say if you're going to lay off 10% of your workforce, you have even, even in America to make an announcement about that.
Elon Musk
We did make an announcement, yes. Let's not read too much into a preemptive lawsuit that has no standing,
Qatar Forum Interviewer
that
Elon Musk
is a small lawsuit of minor consequence that just anything that related to Tesla gets big headlines. But whether it is a bicycle accident or something much more serious, it seems like anything related to Tesla gets a lot of clicks, whether it is trivial or significant. I would put that lawsuit referring to in the trivial category. So a year from now, I think our headcount will be higher in both Salaried and obviously in hourly. But in the short term of the next few months, we expect to see, like I said, roughly a 10% reduction in salaried workforce, which is actually just really only a 3%, 3.5% reduction in total headcount and not super material.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
Should we jump to that third? Elon Musk, the uncontroversial one in politics. You've indicated that the Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, is someone you could get behind if he ran for president. I wondered if you're still in that position and whether you would, for instance, think about supporting Donald Trump if he were to run.
Elon Musk
Well, I was simply asked if there was if I decided on who I would be supporting in the next presidential race. And I said I had not decided who I would support. Then I was asked, well, who might you be leaning towards? I said, possibly DeSantis.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
Now I'm asking you about Trump, whether you would consider him.
Elon Musk
I think I'm undecided at this point. On that election.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
You talked about putting money behind a super moderate super PAC in the US And I wondered how much money do you think you're going to put into that? What kind of support would you push?
Elon Musk
I have not decided on an amount, but it would be some non trivial figure, I think. I mean, at least sort of on
Qatar Forum Interviewer
the order of non trivial could mean a lot. Sorry, non trivial could mean a lot of money with you. I was guessing.
Elon Musk
Well, I don't know. I've not decided on the exact amount, but Perhaps it'd be 20 or 25
Qatar Forum Interviewer
million dollars just on that issue. I mean, again, you look at what DeSantis says, you look at what Trump says and those sort of politicians, they again, are people who make a large noise about China. And I wondered whether you thought that was also an issue for you in terms of business in China.
Elon Musk
Well, no, I don't think so.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
You're a brave man. Can I ask you, over the weekend, you tweeted your support of one cryptocurrency. You've seen the kind of carnage that has been happening in cryptocurrencies at the moment. What is happening and do you still think people should invest or is it a more selective approach?
Elon Musk
Well, I have never said that people should invest in crypto. In the case of Tesla, SpaceX, myself, SpaceX and Tesla and myself all did buy some Bitcoin, but it's a small percentage of our total cash and near cash assets, so, you know, not all that significant. I also bought some dogecoin and Tesla accepts dogecoin for some merchandise and SpaceX will do the same. And I intend to personally support Dogecoin because I just know a lot of people who are not that wealthy who, you know, have encouraged me to buy and support Dogecoin. So I'm responding to those people, just people that want to walk around the factory at SpaceX or Tesla, they've asked me to support Dogecoin. So I'm doing so because Dogecoin, I
Qatar Forum Interviewer
think has come down a lot. It's down about 80, 90% or it's down a lot. And that's the reason why you came out and said that you still thought there was value there.
Elon Musk
I said I support Dogecoin and I am doing that.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
Can I ask you one last question? As I noticed that you're going to unleash a humanoid robot to be unveiled on September 30, I wonder if there's anything more you could tell us about that.
Elon Musk
Well, I hope that we will have an interesting prototype to show people, but we have a very talented team at Tesla that I'm working with closely to have a prototype humanoid robot ready by the end of September. And I think we are tracking to that point. So that. And there'll be a few other exciting things that we talk about at the Tesla AI day. But I really want to, you know, we have these sort of AI Day events to just emphasize that Tesla is a lot more than a car company and that we are, in my view, the leading real world AI company that exists.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
Did you see at all the drama about the. At Google, where tweet, where people at least one engineer thought that what was happening in terms of their AI machinery was closer to human thought than had been seen before and quite worrying. Had a personality. Is that something that you think about at all or you worry about?
Elon Musk
I think we should be concerned about AI. And I said for a long time that I think there should be ought to be an AI regulatory agency that oversees artificial intelligence for the public good. And I think just as there's anything that for anything where there is a risk to the public, whether that's a Food and Drug Administration or Federal Aviation Administration, General Communications Commission, where there is a public risk or public good at stake, it's good to have sort of a government referee and a regulatory body. And I think we should have that for AI and we don't currently. And that would be my recommendation.
Qatar Forum Interviewer
Elon Musk, you've been incredibly kind with your time, not least because I think it's 3am in the morning in New York it's been a heroic performance. Thank you very much for talking to the Qatar Economic Forum and talking to Bloomberg. Thank you.
Elon Musk
You're most welcome. Thanks for having me.