Webdiffusion des résultats du deuxième trimestre 2018 de Tesla, où Musk et son équipe évoquent la montée en cadence de la Model 3, l'Autopilot et les plans futurs.
Speaker A
Good day ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Tesla Q2 2018 financial results and Q and A webcast call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. Later we will conduct a question and answer session and instructions will follow at that time. If anyone should require assistance during the conference, please press star then zero on your touch tone telephone. As a reminder, this conference may be recorded. I would now like to introduce your host for today's conference, Mr. Martin Vieja, Senior Director of Investor Relations. You may begin. Thank you very much, Cherie. And good afternoon everyone. Welcome to Tesla's second quarter 2018 Q&A webcast. I'm joined today by Elon Musk, JB Straubel, Deepak Ahuja, Robin Ren, our Head of Sales, Jerome Guien, our VP of Trucks. And we also have our autopilot team with us here. Andre Karpathy, Director of AI, Stuart Bowers, our VP of Engineering, and Pete Bannon, our Director of Silicon Engineering. Our Q2 results were announced at about 1pm Pacific Time in the update letter we published as the same link as this webcast. During this call we will discuss our business outlook and make forward looking statements. These comments are based on our predictions and expectations as of today. Actual events or results could differ materially due to a number of risks and uncertainties, including those mentioned in our most recent filings with the sec. During the question and answer portion of today's call, please limit yourself to one question and one follow up. Please press star one now if you would like to join the question queue. Before we jump into Q and A, Elon has some opening remarks. Elon, hi. Thank you for joining. First of all, I'd like to say we're incredibly proud of the Tesla team for producing 7,000 Model 3 Model S and Model X vehicles in last week of June. That was an amazing effort. It's an honor to work with such great team to produce that incredible result. It's like mind blowing. We continue to achieve 5,000 Model 3s per week, 7,000 combined SX and three multiple weeks in July showing that we're able to do this on a sustained basis. And we expect to, in the absence of a force majeure or some very unexpected event, be able to achieve an average of 5,000 Model 3s or above for Q3 and 2,000 Model SxS or above per week for Q3 as well. So essentially 7,000 cars a week plus for an average for Q3. That's an amazing jump from only a year ago. We were producing 2,000 vehicles a week. It's really kind of a mind blowing leap forward for manufacturing company. So yeah, it's incredible work by the team to do that. Many, many late nights weekends, extreme amounts of effort and, and lots of smart ideas. Amazing. One of the results you're seeing is that the Model 3 market share has surpassed all competitor premium midsize sedans compliance. So Model three market share is now a majority or in July was a majority of all pre incidents. That trend is we think likely to continue. So it's not, it's not, we do not think it will stop there. I have Rob Morin here who's our worldwide head of sales to talk about some of the interesting elements that we're seeing in terms of cars that people are trading in the sales and demand trends. It's looking really, really positive. We're also getting great feedback on all three from our customers. And we're now delivering the performance dual motor and all wheel drive versions. And the multi year reviews are outstanding. Really couldn't ask for better reviews from some of the toughest critics in the world. And it's. Yeah. And it's just the thing that we really find is that the more Model 3s we deliver to the field, it's actually causing viral growth of our sales. So we deliver Model three to somebody, they love it. They tell all their friends they're actually really our customers are our primary sales force. They love their car and take their friends for a drive. And that's the thing that fundamentally drives our sales. But not everyone has a brand who has Model three, obviously. So we need to get cars out there for test drives. As it is right now, not even all stores in North America have Model 3 for test drives. We prioritize getting cars to customers. But we're soon going to have Model 3s available for test drives in all stores and both the performance version and the rear wheel drive version. So a lot of people, they will not buy a car until they test drive it, which is not unreasonable. Although on Sunday when I delivered it, we did testing out like direct delivery, which I think is definitely future direct delivery from factory gate to a customer's home or wherever they are. The guy who bought it had never actually even sat in a Model 3. I was like, wow, okay. I said, well how do you feel about the car now you have it and driven? I was like, I love it. It's amazing. So yeah, it just seems to be really well received. Yeah. So at approximate of 7,000 cars a week, we, we believe we can be sustainably profitable. From Q3 onwards, we're going to try to raise that rate of Model 3 production steadily in the coming quarters and try to get to the 10,000 cars a week number as soon as we can. What we found as we spent a lot of time debugging wide range of manufacturing issues, that the potential for our existing lines to be able to produce far more cars is much greater than expected. That by simplifying production lines, by speeding them up, by in some cases having things being done manual instead of automatic, and in other cases having be done automatic instead of manual, we've been able to achieve dramatic improvements to the output of the existing lines. Which means that our capex going from 5,000 cars a week to 10,000 cars a week is a tiny fraction. Capex going from 5 to 10 is a tiny fraction of the capex needed to go from 0 to 5,000 Model 3s. This is I think very good news for capital efficiency of the company and with large tremendous amount that's going to inform future mass market vehicles that we produce. So from an operating Plan standpoint from Q3 onwards, I really want to emphasize our goal is to be profitable and cash flow positive for every quarter going forward. Now obviously if there's a big recession or there's a severe force majeure event that entrusts the supply chain, that's not always possible. But we're confident that in providing the economy is roughly where it is today or reasonably good and there's not a big portion of your event that we I feel comfortable achieving a GAAP income positive and cash flow positive quarter every quarter from here on out. I should say there may be occasional quarters where we pay back a big loan or something where there may be, you know, just because we paid back a big loan but you know, absent back would be. So once again I'd like to thank the Tesla team for the incredible work and our customers for their support. Without the great people we had a Tesla and the customers who put their faith in us by buying our product, we would not be here today. And yeah, I've really never been more excited about the future of Tesla. We have a super exciting set of products to bring out in the future and yeah, it's like, yeah, I mean, sorry to end, sorry if I sound a little tired, I've been working like crazy in the buddy shop lately but it's really going great. I'm super excited. Some good people and a number of the executive team here in particular asked the three key leaders of the Tesla water pilot team to be here. So maybe I could go from here to see if autopilot leaders, Tesla could introduce themselves and say a bit about what you're working on, what you're excited about in the future. Sorry to put you guys on the spot and everything, but we're making pretty radical advances in the core software technology and division of neural net. And then very importantly, the Tesla self driving chip technology that we've been working on for three years is finally coming to fruition. Pete Ban is going to talk a lot about that, but it's a plug in replacement for the existing computer and enables an order of magnitude improvements in operations per second or frames per second is the way to think about it. And we think this really the key to Tesla full vehicle autonomy. And like I said, we find it to be really easy to replace. I'll let Pete talk about, talk about that. So we start with Stuart, Andre and then Pete. Okay. Hi, I'm Stuart. We have to talk loud, by the way. Oh yeah, they'll talk extra loud. So I'm Stuart. Yeah. Joined team relatively recently. Incredibly excited to kind of be see the foundation the team has built up until this point. And we're building on top of that right now. So right now a lot of the focus is on autopilot V9, which is our on ramp to off ramp solution that's going to automatically attempt to change lanes, understand what lane the car is in, understand the route the user wants to travel and take that route for the user and ultimately hand back control to that user, which is kind of safe and controlled. Integrate navigation. So you like to navigate for one place. You say like, oh, by the way, little tip for if you're driving 1s or x or 3 is if you just tap the navigate button and just drag down, it will automatically navigate you to your home or work, depending upon where you are. That's a pretty cool feature. Yeah, so yeah, that's a lot of focus right now. We're also kind of digging in on some new safety features. I think probably the thing that's just most exciting for me coming into the team is just seeing the foundations been built out over the last two years. I think Andre will talk a lot about some of the perception vision work we've done there, including data engine that has sort of allowed us to build on top of that very, very quickly. And I think we're all starting to see a new set of safety features that really only make sense in this world. We have this extremely high understanding of what's happening around the vehicle. So I think when I sort of think about what gets me excited when I come into work. It's like one starting to introduce real aspects of kind of not just making the commute, kind of reducing the drudgery or kind of the risk of commuting, but also really making it a little bit fun. And the second is like dramatically improving safety in a way that you really can only do once. You have this very nuanced understanding of the world around you. The perception. Cool. Yeah. Hello everyone. My name is Andrew Karpathy and I'm the director of AI here at Tesla. In particular, I lead the vision team which is responsible for turning the video stream that we receive from all the cameras in the vehicle into an understanding of what is around us and around the vehicle. I worked with neural Networks for about 10 years, mostly as a PhD student at Stanford and as a research scientist at OpenAI. And what I'm really excited about is really building up this infrastructure for computer vision that underlies all the neural network training, trying to get those networks to work extremely well and make that a really good foundation, on top of which we build out all the features of the autopilot, like the features associated with the V9 release that's going to come up and that Stuart has mentioned. Oh, hi, this is Pete Bannon. My team, my team's leading currently the Hardware 3 development. The chips are up and working and we have drop in replacements for SX and 3. All have been driven in the field. They support the current networks running today in the car at full frame rates with a lot of idle cycles to spare. So I think we're all really excited about what Andre and his team will be able to do with this hardware in the future. I think like one little anecdotal story was I gave a talk. His team on Hardware 3 last month explaining how it worked and what it was capable of. And then afterwards one of the researchers came up to me and he was really excited and he said this is. So. 2 years ago I came to Tesla and designed the neural network accelerator that's part of Hardware 3 and helped architect the rest of the Hardware 3 solution that will be in the car next year. Yeah, maybe with articulating some of the details with design principles that explain why the Tesla AI chip, or AI computer essentially for the car, is able to achieve order of magnitude better processing than anything else that exists. Sure, yeah. So like two years ago when I joined Tesla, we did a survey of all of the solutions that were out there for running neural networks, including GPUs. We went and talked to other people, like at ARM that were building embedded solutions for running neural networks. And pretty much everywhere we looked, you know, if somebody had a hammer, whether it was a CPU or a GPU or whatever, they were adding something to accelerate neural networks. But nobody was doing a bottoms up design from scratch, which is what we elected to do. We had the benefit of having the insight into seeing what Tesla's neural networks looked like back then and having projections of what they would look like into the future. And we were able to leverage all of that knowledge and our willingness to totally commit to that style of computing to produce a design that's dramatically more efficient and has dramatically more performance than what you can buy today. Cool, thanks. Yeah, I mean, essentially the key is to be able to run the neural net at a fundamental, at a bare metal level, so that in the circuits it's essentially doing the calculations in the circuit itself and not in some sort of emulation mode, which is how a GPU or CPU would operate. So you want to do basically a massive amount of localized matrix multiplication with the memory right there. So it's a huge number of very simple complications with the memory needed to store those complications right next to of the circuits that are doing the matrix calculations. And the net effect is an order of magnitude improvement in the frames per second. Our current hardware, which I'm a big fan of Nvidia, they can do great stuff, but using a gpu, fundamentally it's an emulation mode, so. And then you also get choked on the bus. So the transfer between the GPU and the CPU ends up being one of the constraints of the system. So the net effect is we're able to, with the Tesla computer and we've been like in like semi stealth mode basically for the last two to three years on this, but I think it's probably time to let the cat out of the bag, because that cat's going to come out of the bag anyway. So. But it's an incredible job by, by Pete and his team to create this, one of the world's most advanced advanced computer for, designed specifically for autonomous operation. And there's a rough sort of figure of merit. Whereas the current Nvidia based hardware can do 200 frames a second, this is able to do over 2000 frames a second and with, with the full redundancy and failover. So it's an amazing design and we're going to be looking to increase the size of our trip team and our investment in that as quickly as possible. I think we're at some of the Best aces in the world. But I think we want to build on that even more. And it costs the same as our current hardware. And we anticipate that they would have to be this replacement, which is why we made it easy to switch out the computer. And that's all that needs to be done. If we take out one computer and plug it in the next, that's it. All the connectors are compatible and you get an order of magnitude more processing and you can run all the cameras at full frame rate, full resolution with the complex neural net. So it's super kick ass. Thank you for doing that. You're welcome. Thanks for making the nets and thanks for making the software. Anyway, basically I wanted to introduce three of the key people at Tesla that are doing this. A huge respect and admiration to you guys, and it's because of what you and your team is doing that Tesla will be successful in this arena. Thank you. Thank you. Elon Shuri. Let's go to the first question. Thank you. Our first question comes from Tony Sakonaji with Bernstein. Yes, thank you. I have one question and one follow up, please. First, just on gross margins, it looks like SNX gross margins were up maybe 500 basis points sequentially. And I'm wondering maybe you can articulate what drove that. And then more importantly, it looks like you're calling for Model 3 gross margins to go from about maybe 3% this quarter to 15% next quarter. That's about a $6,000 cost out per car. And I'm wondering if you can maybe help us understand what sort of the forces that drive that kind of improvement in a relatively short time frame. Yeah, absolutely. First of all, I'd like to apologize for being implied on the particle. Honestly, I think there's really no excuse for bad matters. And I was kind of violating my own rule in that regard. You know, I have some excuse, there are reasons for it. And then I've gotten no sleep and you know, I've been working sort of 10 hour, 20 hour weeks, but nonetheless, there's still no excuse. My apologies for not being polite on the fire call. I appreciate that. Thank you. And let's see, with respect to gross margin, I'll touch on that and then hand the rest to Deepak. But certainly when spooling up the production line, there are a tremendous amount of inefficiencies. There's a lot of hurry up and wait where some parts of the production line move, well, then one part doesn't and you have associates waiting around with next doo. There are parts that we thought were right. But then it turns out we've got to, if they weren't right, we're going to send them back to the supplier. It's just like the whole sort of giant machine just needs to kind of lurch into a high pace. And there's a lot of lurching which is very inefficient. They end up having super high labor cost per car. And it just takes time to sort of spool up this giant machine. Basically a production system is like a giant cybernetic collector and then it moves as fast as the slowest part. So as we address those slow parts and as you improve efficiency, then GAAP grow gross margin and sort of profitability per car just improve dramatically. That's sort of at a high level. Do you want to add to that, Elon? You described it extremely well. So just to sort of summarize, this was a major milestone for us in Q2 that the gross margin of Model 3 turned slightly positive. And we feel really good about the path ahead. And as Elon said, it's driven predominantly by manufacturing cost efficiencies. It's the labor hours that we use to produce each car becomes less. The initial ramp up costs that we have that are one time those inefficiencies disappear. Our fixed costs that are there that gets leveraged to a higher volume. So all of that. Actually a thing that can also happen is that if it turns out that say a production part was either designed wrong or built wrong or so there's something wrong with it, then on a kind of emergency basis we have to go with low volume tooling which can be produced quickly. But a part produced off of a low volume tooling can easily be 10 times more than a part produced production tooling. And so that's one you can have sometimes really nut if you've got a machine, something out of out of a block and see if that'll make or make a car, then the cost of using low volume, low volume 200 can be really nutty. And that journey just continues. As we stabilize and grow production from these levels, we achieve even more efficiencies. And Q3 also benefits with somewhat improved mix as we're going to sell for all wheel drive and performance cars. And in the long run, as we continue to achieve those efficiencies and cost, our gross margins will continue to increase. Yeah, I mean I don't know if this trend will continue. Trying to give you essential information that at least we know of, but we're seeing roughly half of all Customers choose the dual motor all wheel drive option, which is actually quite a good positive surprise. Yeah, it's been heartening to see that mix in terms of what customers want. Robin can probably add more to that. Yeah. So starting from end of June when we opened the configurator and invited the existing reservation holders, we saw tremendous excitement and response from our customers. As Deepak just mentioned, we actually see more orders for the all wheel drive, dual motor car and performance cars combined than the rear wheel drive cars. Yeah, we don't want to say this should be assumed to be a continued thing, it's just the thing we are seeing now. Correct. And another thing I want to point out is that we are actually, since we opened the configurator to the general public in early July, we are seeing a increased demand coming from people who do not currently hold a resolution. I think that's something that we found super exciting because these are the people who actually had no idea about Model 3 and they heard about Model 3 as available to order. Many of them requested test drives. And since early July we have over 60,000 test drive requests in the US alone. And these people come into our stores, do the test drive and they become super excited and they decide to order the car. So we believe that the strong demand coming from especially the non reservation holders is going to dramatically increase as we increase our test drive population. To give you an example, three weeks ago we had only eight stores having test drive cars. To Elon's point earlier, now we have over 90 stores having test drive cars. Okay, it's worth mentioning just some interesting little bits of information that Robin was telling me. I'd rather just like also command Robin doing a great job running worldwide sales. Thanks to all and the awesome work done in China was really some next level stuff. Robin was born and raised in Shanghai and it's been along with Tom and Grace and other as a tiny team in China has been sort of instrumental in establishing the Tales of China factory and making sure that gets done right and have a great relationship with the government. And so it's nice work in that regard. But it's really, I think one of the things people are expecting. What are the top five trading cars for? Model 3? Yeah, this is very interesting. So we looked at what people who are buying Model 3 cars in the United States, what cars they're trading in. What we found is through this year, from January to July, the top five non Tesla cars people are trading in to get into a Model 3. They are Toyota Prius, BMW 3 Series, Honda Accord, Honda Civic and Nissan Leaf. They're really surprising. Yeah, they are surprising because they are not the traditional premium sedans. They are actually many of them are the mainstream missile sedans. Right. And we're obviously at this point not yet selling $35,000 car since it's promising for the future. All right, cool. Next question. Thank you. Our next question comes from Joseph Spack with RBC Capital Markets. Good afternoon. Thanks. Maybe we could tackle some of the commentary about the Gigafactory coming in China. When you first announced the Gigafactory one, I think you said that was going to be about a $5 billion investment and you mentioned some volume numbers associated with what you think given China. So we do some extrapolation. Looks like maybe 15 gigawatts of gigawatt hours of initial capacity. I'm wondering if you could also do a linear extrapolation on the cost you think you need for that factory. Sure. And I would also like to apologize for being applied to on the last call with you. That was not right. I hope you accept my apologies. Thanks. So, with respect to Gigafactory CapEx, I think we've learned a tremendous amount with Gigafactory 1, and we're confident that we can do the Gigafactory in China for a lot less. I think it's probably closer to, this is just a guess, but probably closer to 2 billion. And this will be at a higher. And that would be sort of at the 250,000 vehicle per year rate. And so I think we could be a lot more efficient with CapEx. And that would include at least battery module and pack production, Body shop, paint shop, and general assembly might even be less than that, but that's about the right number for that. And then cell production. So we need to figure out. With respect to the Shanghai factory. Jb, would you like to add to that? Yeah, yeah, I'd agree with all that. We found surprising number of ways to improve efficiency and speed and density as well at Gigafactory 1. And all those lessons will absolutely be shared with Gigafactory 3. You know, the teams are already, of course, you know, beginning to collaborate and, you know, start to figure out ways to, to do this more efficiently and, you know, with less Capex than last time. Yeah, yeah, I think we could. Like less than half is like, would be a good estimate and maybe a lot less than half, but not more than half would be fair estimates for capex to get to that 250k level. So it's just, we just learned a Tremendous amount about manufacturing. It's like definitely burned out a lot of neurons. Mental scarf industry, like next level. But on the plus side, we really know a lot about why manufacturing at this point. I mean, there are so many specific examples, but even in just recent weeks and months, we found some certain areas of production that have been very capital intensive that we've been able to speed up with almost no additional CapEx by maybe 20, even 25 or 30%. Just by including on the incoming cell production. Yeah, just by challenging some of the initial assumptions, the specifications, tweaking the controls and software. Look, what really matters, what actually doesn't matter, things you think matters. It actually ends up not being not married at all. And that's with basically zero capex. So as you start to add very tactical strategic capex to the existing lines, that's how we can get to something close to double or beyond with a really, really small increment. Yeah. One of the keys to success on the Model 3 correction was the GA4 thing, which was led by Jerome. Jerome also was key in being the sort of zone one and two semi auto lines, which were critical because we have just fundamental failure, especially in zone 1, zone 2 of battery module production. Thank you. Drove was as soon as that. But pointing some pretty incredible radish out of the hat. That was amazing. Thank you. People make love fun about tent, but by the way, our tent is amazing. And this is not like people who like say tent, they'll think that it's like some sort of, you know, you buy REI or something to go camping. This is a tent that is actually commonly used as a permanent structure. It is a giant thing that is very commonly used as a permanent structure. And we just had to come up with a creative solution because GA3 was not going to be able to make the rate. And so we had to come up with some ideas and perhaps you could tell people how that all transpired. It's interesting to learn. Yeah. Thank you. It was a fun project, actually. So not only was it producing good results, but a lot of people contributed from different engineering groups and had a lot of fun in the process. We set out. That's cool. It's great. That's really satisfying. About building cars, we just wanted to create an assembly line that would be very easy and very straightforward. So it's a straight line, very simple car enters at one point and is finished at the other end. Very simple access on all sides. Very simple tooling that we reused for most of. Actually, nearly all of it is systems and tools that we discarded from previous SMX or from Model 3, especially Model 3. We had two weeks to solve this problem, which is like quite the impossible. So we actually didn't have time to order new equipment because it would have taken too long to arrive. So we took the conveyors that we discarded from the GA3 line, which didn't work, which was way too complex to actually do our parts, and we simplified, repurposed them, make them sturdy for what was needed. Well, like a really cool idea was we're putting them on the 1% grade. So it's like, technically, the conveyors for parts delivery to GA3 were not graded to be able to move something as heavy as a car. So. We made it downhill and on a 1% downward grade with the car at the top. So then you can actually overcome the transmission. Gravity helps. Yeah, gravity. Basically, with Newton on your side, you can accomplish a lot. Yeah, just pushing the car. Exactly. No, and something that I'm particularly happy about is that we installed the quality team at the end of the line. And we wanted to have at least as high standards on this new line. And the other one, because it is so simple and straightforward, they can run very quickly to any point in the line if there is any potential concern and address very quickly. There is no maze to move around or identify where something happened. And the quality of the cars that come out of this structure is at least as good. And we make all the performance cars on this particular line and they seem to be doing quite well. So this is a very pleasant surprise. And the associate seems to be very happy and engaged in that particular area. So this may be a model of how we may want to start general assembly for future vehicles. At least start. And we can always add further automation and complexity. And something that's like somewhat counterintuitive is that this actually has fully considered fewer labor hours per car than the GA3 system. And just to elaborate on what was saying, when we have parts delivery to GA4, the truck literally just backs up to the side of the line where there's like a door in the tent. And then that is used to unload parts from suppliers directly to where they're needed on the line. So there's no intermediate system. Whereas for GA3, they're unloaded, they're put in a warehouse, then they're repackaged from the warehouse into these totes, which. So we actually have 220 people, something like that, across all shifts, whose only job it was was to repackage parts from the boxes of carrying suppliers to the Boxes that. To these totes that go into the lifters, that go up into GA3. That's literally all they do is move things from one box to another box and we don't need that at all on GA4. All gone. All gone. Yeah. And there's a tremendous amount of 24, seven robotics technicians that are constantly trying to make the machines have uptime that's very expensive. And so when you think about not having to maintain all these robotic systems, that's a big cost savings as well. And now we're going to gradually be adding simple automation into GA4 to make it easier to build a car and better sort of labor saving devices. But it's just fundamental. It's already at an efficiency level greater than GA3, which is pretty impressive. Joe, do you have a follow up question? Our next question comes from James Albertine with Consumer Edge. Good afternoon and thank you for taking my question and appreciate all the color you've been providing. Wanted to dig a little bit deeper though in terms of capital spending plans considering the growth you've identified in China with the model Y we believe also in the eu it's been discussed about a factory there. How do you plan to fund all of this growth without going back to the capital markets to raise funds? And can you verify for us whether or not there is a notice from a regulator that would prevent you from raising outside capital? We do not, will not be raising any equity at any point. At least that's. I have no expectation of doing so. Do not plan to do so. For China, I think our default plan would be to use essentially a loan from the local banks in China and fund the gigafactory in Shanghai with local debt essentially. And we certainly could raise money, but I think we do not need to. And we. Yeah, yeah. I think it's better to. It is better disciplined not to. Yeah. We are executing on an operating plan that keeps us sufficiently self funded despite our capex needs and our debt debts maturing and still keep a very healthy balance on our balance sheet. Yeah, the plan is we start paying off our debts. I don't mean refiing them, I mean paying them more. For example, there's a convert that's coming due soon, a couple hundred million, but there's 900 million February or something like that. We expect to pay that off with internally generated cash flow and still be. Still have a healthy cash balance. Yeah. And to answer the other question, there is no such notice from a regulator. Oh yeah, yeah. I'm not sure what you're talking about, but there is no such notice from a regulator. Very good. Thank you very much. Let's go to the next question, please. Our next question comes from George Galliers with Evercore. Hi, George. Okay, let's go to the next one. Thank you. Our next question comes from Adam Jonas with Morgan Stanley. Hey, everybody. First, there's so much love and respect for colleagues and Wall street analysts on this call. It's almost. It is lifting my spirits. What can I say? I got two questions. The first is for the autopilot team. There's an argument that a fully autonomous car is essentially a terminator that is programmed to save lives in highly complex terrestrial environments, and that this same technology, with a few tweaks, have some pretty obvious military capability. Do you see any risk that US Companies will ultimately not be allowed to operate weapons grade AI based technology in a market like China and vice versa? Well, this has never come up. I wouldn't call it reverence grade. It's just like the car's trying to drive, you know, and if anything, the autonomous cars will be pretty easy to bully because they'll be optimizing so much for avoiding collision. So that'll be more of a challenge than anything else is as soon as somebody sees that the car is autonomous, they know they can like, you know, cut them off and the car's going to be doing it can to avoid a collision. So it's like that'll actually be probably a bigger challenge than anything else. But we've not encountered anything of the nature of what you're saying. So you don't see autonomous cars as a potential germination or training grounds for things that would have a national security or military interest. Okay, maybe a follow up, Elon. And my last question, who do you think would be a more formidable competitor over time, BMW or Amazon? Tesla for Tesla, man. I don't think either of them are likely to be, you know, as far as I know. I mean, I'd be pretty shocked if Amazon got into the car business, but, you know, BMW has great engineering. They're. And it's good to see that they're making some investments in electrification. Hopefully they do more of that. And I'm not sure where they stand on autonomy. It's not on our radar from an autonomy standpoint. Thanks a lot. Okay, let's go to the next question. Thank you. Our next question comes from Piera Faragu with New Street Research. Thank you for having me. For having me on. So I wanted to make sure we understand, well, how you stepped burning cash, going forward in coming quarters. And my understanding is that an important moving part here probably is, probably the most important one is a positive impact of the ramp of the Model 3 on your working capital. And so I did some quick math on the quarter and I see your payables increased by 430 million while your receivable didn't move much, which makes sense because you get paid on the spot and you pay your suppliers only on a 60 day notice or more. And so if I divide that by the number of incremental cars you've been producing in the quarter, I get you about $23,000 per car. And of course my question is whether this is a good way to think about it. Which means that going forward, when you move into Q3 and Q4, every additional car, every additional Model 3 you're going to produce, you're going to bump up payables by something in the region of $20,000. And that's going to be the main driver getting you to break even and to stop burning cash. Deepak, there are many factors. Clearly the working capital benefit of the difference in the payable terms versus collecting cashiers who want to them. But also it's our gross margin improvement on the business with the. It's the higher volumes and higher gross margin resulting in higher gross profit. I'm stating the obvious here. On Model 3, our SNX volumes are increasing too in the second half. That's going to help us significantly. And all of our other businesses are improving their profitability while our OPEX is staying essentially flat. So massive leverage in the business. So when you combine all of that, that's what is giving us the cash flow from operations to fund the rest of our business and grow cash. I'm stating the obvious, but just sort of summarizing the whole point. Yeah, okay, sorry, go ahead. Sorry, what was the question? Can you repeat the follow up? Yes, sorry, Peter, can you repeat the follow up? My follow up was in terms of order of magnitude, does like $20,000 per car of payables boost over a 60 day period? Does that sound like something that makes sense or am I missing other moving paths? Rough order of magnitude. Correct. Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. Okay, let's go to the next question. Thank you. Our next question comes from Romit Shah with Nomura instinet. Yes, thanks very much. I guess my question is for the autopilot team. We've been looking forward to this fully autonomous coast to coast drive and Elon, I think you sort of said on previous calls, if I can paraphrase that the team's been focused on developing a full self driving suite that would work basically on all different kinds of road conditions. And I'm just curious what's holding back that capability today to go coast to coast? And are we closer now that you've strengthened the compute technology? Yeah, we can do a coast to coast drive, especially if we, if we pick a specific route and then write code to really make that route work. We could do a coast to coast route drive, but that would be kind of gaming the system. And I think it's really important for the Autopilot team to be focused on fundamental safety of the existing features. So that's the focus is really massively on safety of existing features. Then there's a dev, an advanced dev build that can do things like recognize traffic lights and stop signs and make hardware turns and that kind of thing. But it's not at the safety level that concerns okay for release. So. But you know, because really we want many nines of reliability for anything that's released to end customers. So I don't want to take the team off that until we feel like we've really done everything possibly can for the core functionality. Stuart, do you want to add that? Yeah, I mean, I think the big thing I say is Evan, to reiterate yon's point, like, there's no question you can kind of build a demo around this stuff. The challenge right now for the team is just increasing the safety and utility of Autopilot to over a quarter million cars we have today and pushing more out after that. So I think when we look kind of forward to what the next six to 12 months look like, it's taking those same kind of features we've been working on, probably deploying them in the form of active safety features. Like that's like a thing we can do already is just understand, like use this rich understanding in the environment to actually try to keep you safer, to either beep or break. And then also of course, like one huge advantage that we have is we can understand what humans actually did in these vehicles and test our software to make sure that we would have made decisions that were similar, if not safer. So that's going to be a huge part of what we do over the next probably two quarters. Yeah. I mean, that said, we might be able to pull off coast to coast demo before the end of the year if we, you know, but really right now the super heads down focus on the version 9 software release, which has got a number of really cool things in it and we're Hoping to get that out to early access program in about four weeks and then broadly in September. That's the hardcore focus right now. And that'll certainly include some significant advancements in autonomy. And then once that's out and stable, I think that could be a good time to work on the coast coast drive. I don't know if you guys have shared what attach rates are for Autopilot. As my follow up, I guess I'm curious what you can do to increase the number of cars that have that functionality. It would seem like the effect of auto margins and cash flows could be pretty positive. Yes, I think it's extremely powerful. Once people are comfortable using the technology and see just how much utility it brings, I think that is a very significant potential for margin gain in the future. But it's contingent on that functionality really making a difference. I think we will really start to see some of the breakthrough stuff in about a month or so. Okay, let's go to the next question. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from John Murphy with Bank of America. Good afternoon. Just a first question. Is it fair to assume the GA4 in the 10th is now essentially permanent? And if so, is this potentially a new model for capacity and capacity additions? It might be much more capital efficient over time experiment and for now, yeah, next we come until we come up with something different or better. But personally I think it's a good model to start assembly of any product, use a lot of flexibility and then we can build and iterate over it. Necessity is mother invention and when you have to do something quickly, then you just don't have time to spend a lot of capital. So it forces you to be capital efficient. Yeah, it taught us a lot of lessons on how to be capital efficient in the general assembly area. So in that sense those lessons will carry forward. John? Yeah, I think still by and large we'll be aiming for steel. Steel frame buildings to be clear. Stuff like that is going to just become tents everywhere. The tent itself might be a little bit of a distraction from actually the focus of what's happening inside. Yeah, exactly. And that's the similar methodology that we kind of reverted back to and then moved forward from in the module where we simplified and then did a very, very linear, intuitive process that was a bit more manual and then have automated and scaled that up as we understand it and get good control of it. And I think that's a lesson that we're taking to heart broadly across other things that we're going to do in the future. And it's an efficient way to scale up. I mean, is that replication of that simplicity why you think Shanghai could be that much less costly and that the Model Y capacity might be that much less costly to add? Yeah, Model Y is sort of a whole separate thing, but it's definitely one of the elements that convince us that we can scale up quickly. And at low capex in Shanghai, we would do an improved version of GA4. And then we also figured out how to make the paint shop a lot simpler and general assembly a lot simpler. And aspa's call. I'm headed back out to the body shop. Making the body shop. Yeah, we can really simplify the body shop. Nan. Wow. And there's a lot that we can that are really easy to improve, like design for manufacturing and changing some of the joining approaches that we use and actually making the car lighter, cheaper and better and actually safer. It's really. Although it's ridiculously safe already. But maybe one other point just to follow up quickly. I think some people have taken this as like a walk back from automation, which is not really accurate either. This is basically a more thoughtful and focused way to apply automation to the actual issues that matter most. Yes, well said. Actually, it's really worth emphasizing JB's point here. Yeah, yeah. Worth saying again. Yeah, it's not an overall reduction in automation. It is a focusing of our efforts on automating the processes and the value add processes that matter the most. And I think we got maybe a little bit distracted on this first round. Automating a lot of things that added complexity that didn't necessarily speed up. Way too fancy. And we can, we can save. Start simple, get fancy later. Fancy's gonna bite you in the ass. But it's not the dark ages of all manual everything. That's not at all the case. Yeah, I mean, Gigafactory is massively automated, massively automated. It looks, it's pretty crazy. But the body production is also heavily automated. Most entire robots. So it's a mixture of people and automation. There's so much that goes into producing a car, going from raw metal and plastic and glass to an actual finished car. And as JB was saying, the vast majority of that is highly automated. Okay, if I can sneak in one quick follow up. I mean, when we look at the grosses on the Model 3, you're seeing 15% in 3Q, 20% in 4Q. And I think the ultimate target is 25%. I mean, what are the average transaction prices you guys are assuming? I mean, it sounds like it will Be a bit higher earlier, but is that 25% gross ultimately still built around the low 40,000 ATP? Yes. Okay, so the simple answer is, yes, it will be lower ASPs than what we have today, clearly. And you're having a richer mix of all wheel drive, as Elon alluded to earlier, so that's going to help. But yes, 25% is still the target that we have ahead of us. Highly confident that it may not be Q1, but I'd be shocked if it's not Q2 that we get to 25%. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you. Let's go to the next question. Thank you. Our next question comes from Alex Eisel with Berenberg. Good evening everyone, and thanks for taking my question. I would like to come back to the point made on the manufacturing efficiencies. I mean, overall, the two main challenges for Tesla, but also for the rest of the industry is the manufacturing part, which has been overcome by a lot of companies already, with the second one being the technology part. My question is how would you describe the learning curve of the manufacturing process versus technology and what is really the base of advancements you're making? Because it looks like on the manufacturing side the curve that you have meaningfully accelerated here. Thank you. Well, I don't really know actually how others do it, to be totally frank. I just know that the way we. I see that the way we're doing it, and I'm told that this is how others do it and we're able to find ways to make it much better, I guess. I. I don't know what the Delta would be though. We also don't really, I think, differentiate it quite the way maybe you're implying. I mean, today technology and manufacturing are sort of one and the same in many cases. And we're treating a lot of the manufacturing problems as a technology problem and applying our design teams, our technology teams, if you want to call them that, to solving those issues. So I think the learning curves in some ways are quite similar. Yeah, it's amazing how much of production is actually software. Yeah, we're really quite good at software relative to other car companies. And manufacturing at volume is mostly a software problem. I think that is not well appreciated. I think maybe one other lesson learned is that it's obviously not the best approach for best efficiency to outsource some of that development. Some of the areas that we struggled the most through the Model 3 ramp were those where we had perhaps less visibility and less control and less direct kind of skin in the game. On how those production lines were designed and built. And these are cases where we took, we engaged with companies that were supposed to be world class experts in automotive production and we just assumed that they would do that, this stuff would work, but it didn't. Yeah. So that learning curve often involves Tesla coming directly in, understanding the process intimately, simplifying it, and then essentially doing our own design or changes to the lines that were built. I think that's a key learning point that we've taken and I think a way that we can do this a lot more efficiently in the future is doing that approach from the start. Yeah. Just having that very rapid iteration between design and production is incredibly helpful. And we understand, for example, what are the rate limiters, what makes it hard to produce factory modules. And we came up with a new design that achieves the same outcome. It's actually lighter, better, cheaper, and we'll be introducing that around the end of this year, but probably reach volume production that in Q1 or something that will. Yeah. Like make the call lighter, better and cheaper and achieve a higher rate. And that line is under construction. We're active in about six months. Yeah, there's, I mean we did this somewhat the first time around, but now there's, I think, even more exciting understanding of the value of having those, as Elon said, having the design engineers just working intimately with, you know, automation and line engineers, you know, simplifying the process as they're designing the product. Yeah. And I mean, because we're so desperate to try to get the production working, we actually took design engineering team and had to work in the factory and improve work on production. And it's given them tremendous insight into how they need to change their designs in the future to make it easy to produce. Because you feel the pain directly. Yeah. Once you feel the pain, you're like, okay, I didn't realize I was like torturing people with my terrible design now. I know. Great. Let's go to the next question. Thank you. Our next question comes from Ben Callow with Baird. Hello, Carol L. Sunglasses. Hello. Douglas Adams. Can we do more Douglas Adams? Sure. Unless everything else. Adams sure is one of my favorite authors in my 2Deepak. So after July here, how close are you to cash flow positive? Sorry, your question is after July, how close are we to cash flow positive? Yeah, you have, you have July. You have July under the books here. So how close are you to. Yeah, well, we don't have. It's always fun one. We don't have July results done, but it doesn't matter exactly where we are in the month of July. What really matters is over the quarter because it depends on deliveries, depends on production, many factors. So we will be significantly cash flow positive for the quarter. I think that's what really matters. I mean the larger question is like, do we have like a low balance in the bank? The answer is no. We're not in any kind of cash shortage at all. Yeah, I mean if that's the. Yeah, that's a simple answer. Are we running low on money? The answer is no. Well, no, no, no, that's not the question. It's just as you're here, you have, you're selling higher priced cars for a better margin. How does the third quarter look for what you said, for being cash flow positive? Oh yeah, yeah. I'd say highly confident of being cash flow positive and being profitable in Q3. We're sitting here today saying that based on what our expectation is. So yes, sitting here, listen, everything we know at the end of July, it's one month in. We're highly confident of being cash flow positive and GAAP profitable in Q3 and Q4. Now there could be post for sure event like earthquake, but something like that, or massive recession all of a sudden, but in the absence of that, of really unusual macro events. Thanks guys. Great. Thank you very much. Let's go to a journalist question. Thank you. Our next question comes from Tim Higgins with Wall Street Journal. Hi, thanks for the call. Question for you. Do you still plan to make a total of 1 million vehicles in the calendar year of 2020? I think so, yeah. If not a million, it's going to be pretty close, I'd say if not a million, it's probably at least 750 or something like that in 2020. We'll aim for a million in 2020 but somewhere between half a million and a million seems pretty likely. Where do you get the capacity to do that? There's a space called Shanghai. Okay. Shanghai will be important for that. That cool. Okay. Where does the model lie? Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, I think so. And I think we can do over half a million vehicles. Well, actually probably more like 600,000 vehicles with current Giga and Fremont. And so they can throw like you know, 100, 200, you know, maybe more. A couple hundred K from Shanghai and so we're probably going to be more than 600k with Fremont and Giga, Nevada. That's why I think maybe, I think we have a shot at a million. But some of the 7 or 7800 cases pretty likely given the current what we know today. Have you made any decisions on where we're going to make the Model Y? Any. Would you like to tell me? Not yet. Do you expect to announce it this year, though? Maybe. Maybe. Cool. Let's go to the next question. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I should say we are hoping to identify a gigafactory location in Europe before the end of this year. It's not for sure, but we are hoping to do that before the end of the year. Gotcha. Thank you. Our next question comes from Zachary Shahan with Clean Technica. Hello. First of all, thanks for the recent retweet. Elon, I was really, really impressed with the Model 3 after owning a Model S. So I'm really impressed how much you've developed since the early days. My first question was about Conquest sales, actually. Right before the call, we published an article that Camry Sales were down 22% year over year. Prius sales were down 23% year over year. And we're very curious how much you're pulling from these other cars, other segments. It sounds like you sort of answered that question at the beginning, but can you give anything in terms of what percentage those top five are in terms of trade sales and how broad you're pulling? I know you pull from pickup trucks, from sports cars. Can you speak a little more about the diversity you're pulling from? Actually, we don't actually all we have right now is just the top five. I'm so sure what the allocation is between top five or where it goes beyond top five. We're just sort of our curiosity has to the top five breakdown. And it's just interesting that people are trading up into a Tesla. So they're choosing to spend more money on a Tesla than their current car just based on the trade in values. I mean, a Civic is a very inexpensive car compared to particularly the Model 3 today. So that's so promising from their market access standpoint. But of course, long term, we're going to do the Model Y and the compact suv. We're going to do the pickup truck, the semi, the next generation, I mean, we have lots of awesome ideas and probably the biggest limiter on our growth is like how fast can we grow battery production and especially cell production and the whole cell supply chain, I think will be the fundamental determinant of Tesla's growth. And regarding we're super fired up to do this. I think they're all super cool. I know Jerome's favorite semi and that's pretty wicked, obviously. And yeah, it's great. And the work we unveiled, we've actually figured out we've made significant improvements to the design since the unveiling that we had, and it's really even better than what we've talked about. Probably my personal favorite for the next product is pickup truck. And we just do an amazing pickup truck and the model Y competitive speed, probably the most popular car category in the world. So that's like, obviously going to sell pretty well. So a lot of cool things. And of course, sales energy, getting the, you know, what kind of cells are for powerwall right now. So we actually have to artificially limit the number of powerwalls because we don't have enough cells. So we're solving for that very rapidly. And we expect to ramp up powerwall and power pack production substantially later this year and early next. And as well as getting as well as ramping up at solar and then the solar roof, we now have several hundred homes with solar roof on them, and that's going well. It takes a while to just confirm that the solar roof is going to last for 30 years and all the details work out and working with first responders to make sure it's safe in the event of a fire and that kind of thing. So it's quite a long validation program for a roof which is going to last for 30, 40, 50 years, but that we also expect to ramp that up next year at our Gigafactory 2 in Buffalo. That's going to be super exciting. So the project regarding the model, I think Ripple, if there's a company with a better product roadmap, I'd like to know what it is because we've got some super awesome stuff coming. Yeah. And regarding the model Y, there's been a lot of questioning if you're going to have the same process as with Model 3, with reservations, if you can shorten the reservation timeline, or if you're going to have a different process this time around, we haven't made a final decision on that. So, last question then. Regarding the daily production. We've been seeing a rise and fall with the daily production of the Model 3 as you incorporate new performance or white seats. Can you speak at all? We always like to get the technical side of what you're doing there. Can you speak at all about what the bottlenecks are right now that you're working through and what we can sort of how we can picture ourselves in the factory there with you? All right. And actually, one thing I love about your writing is that you really care about getting the details Right. And you really understand things well, which is awesome. And but you know, I have to be careful I don't have a sound bite. That is then for those that don't have a nuanced appreciation of the situation, that soundbite then gets becomes front page news and it's like, nope, that's not what I meant. Yeah, so, yeah, exactly. I'm like, oh man, this is like stream of something. Put there the right now, the biggest constraint on production, again, do not, please do not make fuel, do not make a federal case out of this because it's sold like in a matter of like a week or two is like it's body production. So that's why you can certainly tell what am I personally working on if that's going to be a bottleneck company. So most likely so producing Model three bodies, we've made good progress in the last few weeks. And in fact I was just told that we were able to achieve our first 24 hour period where we made over 800 Model 3 bodies, which is pretty great. And so bidsets, that's, you know, so we need to make sure. Okay, how do we Sustain sustained that 800 plus per day rate and then paint's doing great. GA's doing great. Thanks. Yeah, it's good, it's good. I've got like 47 questions, but I'll just end it with a quick request. Years ago you were warned about. Sorry, so go ahead. Years ago you warned about a coming short tsunami and it seemed obvious it was coming, but the shorts didn't really seem to recognize it and then sort of attacked you, trolled you for months and then finally you came, you again warned, very honestly, I think very directly that there's going to be an epic short squeeze. I think the whole community has a little request. Don't let the trolls get you down. Don't feed the trolls too much. But we do like it when you tease the trolls a bit. So use your judgment. But thanks a lot for what you're doing. All right, well, thank you for your in depth coverage of clean energy technology. Thank you very much. And the very last question comes from Galileo Russell, who represents the retail shareholders. Congrats on an awesome quarter. Really proud to be a Tesla shareholder. With the Model 3 ramping to 5,000 a week, and I think you may have touched on this, but I'm curious, will Tesla ever produce vehicles at Gigafactory 1, maybe the semi. And then I'm curious on any manufacturing synergies between the semi and the Model 3. Oh, wow. Interesting questions. You always come up with really, really interesting questions. Really interesting questions that I cannot actually. The first one, I cannot. You know, it gets so much attention where we put production, so I can't answer any, like, where we're going to put production questions. Will the semi use a bunch of Model 3 technology? The answer is yes, Jerome. I don't know if you want to elaborate on that or. Up to you. Well, I mean, you can already see in the prototype that we've leveraged a lot of the Model 3 components. The screens, the door handles. I mean, as much as possible. Yeah. The motor is. Yeah. In the prototype, a lot of the cell technologies. But there are some changes and I'd rather not. Obviously, it's going to be better than what we showed last year. A lot of improvements. Okay. So hopefully you can talk more about this with the battery project with PG&E that was recently announced. I'm wondering if you could elaborate how you're prioritizing battery pack between auto and energy storage, because it seems like you ramped up auto battery packs to 20 gigawatt hours in the past 12 months, but are only guiding for about 1 gigawatt hour of Tesla energy installation in the next year. So I'm wondering, why is Tesla Energy, given its supply constraint, like, why not ramp that supply to 10 gigawatts? It seems like the guidance is a little low there. Yeah, it's. As Elon suggested earlier, we are essentially. It makes sense for us to prioritize Model 3, but we are adding a ton of capacity, cell capacity. And JD can talk more about it. That will enable us to dramatically ramp our energy storage business as well in the coming quarters. Yeah, you kind of mentioned only one gigawatt hour, but that's a big number in that business. And it's maybe on the order of 300% what we did the prior year. And we're still aiming at, you know, maybe another 3.3-4x growth for. For 2019. Yeah, these are mad. We're at scale. These are insane growth levels. Crazy growth rate. It's not like serving software. This is like you actually need to build. There's like a lot of atoms that are. Yeah, no, I mean, like, once you build software, you can. You can obviously capital copies, but, like when. It's like a lot of really complicated atoms, man. But maybe specifically also to your cell. To the cell limitation question, I think, you know, this has been mentioned before, but we also do use some other vendors other than Panasonic. Yeah, three. Samsung and lg. Exactly. In our Energy products. So, you know, I've heard people feel like this is kind of a zero sum game or something with Model 3. But that is not the case. And you know, we do a partial sum game. We did shut down a powerwall cell line for in favor of Model 3, to be totally honest. But we kind of have to do that. But that's going to. We're adding new cell lines and we'll be able to address that issue very, very soon. I think the buoyant perspective are still tripling our storage cost. These are mad growth numbers. And it's one thing to produce, but it's also another thing to install and deploy. We need infrastructure and the people to do that. So it's massive scaling. There's very few companies go at that rate. Yeah. And one of the biggest challenges like we've got to. There needs to be a lot more electricians. So we actually have an electrician training program. We're going to actually have to train new people who've never been electricians before to be electricians because otherwise there was not enough electrician capacity in the United States and most parts of the world to install firewalls. So it's like we have to actually literally train electricians and it takes like two years basically before somebody is certified to be an electrician. So it's like, okay, we obviously can't grow faster than the rates number of electricians. You can because it means solar power. So that's like one of the limitations. And that PGE project you mentioned is an incredibly exciting one. It kind of is indicative actually of the growth rate. You know, it has a gigawatt hour. Can you elaborate on that? I hope I haven't said anything that's like, wait, but I mean, it is over a gigawatt hour. Yeah, gigawatt hours. That's public. Right. Fully considered. Okay. And you know, just to give you a sense, it took us five years of growing that business, you know, to get to a gigawatt hour cumulative deployed. There are like so many people that said a gigawatt hour is an impossible number for lithium ion. Like that's. Yeah. Anyway, the car business is still much bigger as we sit here today. But the growth rate on energy is faster. Yeah. If you extrapolate energy growth rate. Well, obviously if you extrapolate anything, when it triples per year, pretty soon becomes the size of the universe. But long term, we would expect the energy business to cash up to the order business in size. Nice. And then lastly, I'm really curious, Elon, do you have any part of the business that shareholders should be asking or thinking more about or what do you wish would have been asked on the call? Good question. Actually, I'm trying to anticipate the questions that are on people's minds, which is why we have the autopilot, the key leaders of the autopilot team here and much of the executive team of Tesla here to try to be proactive in that regard. Well, I guess I think we really covered a lot, so. Yeah, just very last thing. Your very last thing. Go ahead. Yeah, sorry, one last thing. The new fiscal engineering strategy of profits and cash flow and you saying that it lasts in perpetuity sort of, sort of caught me by surprise personally. And so I'm curious if there's any trade off to growth with that new strategy or sort of what's the rationale behind the scenes? Because this seems like the biggest change in Tesla's financial engineering strategy since the ipo. Yes. Being cash flow positive and gapping it positive doesn't mean like that doesn't mean we're rolling in money. Like there's definitely going to be cases where we're just barely cash flow positive or fairly profitable in some quarters in the future. But I think we've, and still on testing, you know, almost 15 years now. I think we're at a scale where the amount of time that it takes to actually scale up and do things is there's a certain minimum like we're big enough where we actually can't spend money efficiently to make things go faster. So we kind of hit scale with volume production of cars and I think we can, I think this is probably the right thing to do is to be sort of essentially self funding on a go forward basis. Apart from selective situations where there's say some debt, temporary debt for construction of a gigafactory in China or Europe or something like that. But apart from that, I think we like essentially I don't think we're constraining growth in any significant way by adopting the strategy at this point. It would have been true in times past, but I think it is not in case. Yeah, okay. I think that's. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Unfortunately that's, I think all the time we have today. Appreciate all your questions and looking forward to speaking to you next quarter. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for participating in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may all disconnect and have a wonderful day.