← BackMay 16, 2023CNBC Interview with David FaberWithElon MuskDavid Faber0:00 / 0:00CC1×YouTubeCNBC Interview with David FaberMay 16, 2023Musk's wide-ranging CNBC interview on running Twitter, advertising, Tesla and AI advances.Musk's wide-ranging CNBC interview on running Twitter, advertising, Tesla and AI advances.TranscriptDavid FaberAre you going to have full autonomous on the roads of Austin at the end, by the end of June?Elon MuskYes, you are.David FaberWhat gives you that confidence?Elon MuskWe have cars driving 247 with drivers in the cars and we see essentially no interventions. So we want to be very careful with the first introduction of unsupervised full self driving, meaning that there's the car driving around with no one in it. So we're going to.David FaberNo one buying hot drivers.Elon MuskWell, yes, and sometimes no one in it at all. Just going to pick someone up. The car seems to be incredibly safe. So we have thousands of cars that are being tested, which is creating some strange situations where we just drive. There's just a bizarre number of Teslas driving past people's houses. They're like, what's going on?David FaberComing from the airport, driving at night, alone, looked very lonely.Elon MuskYeah, it's looking good for the next one.David FaberYou know, some estimates have been that you're only going to have 10 to 12 of them on the road initially. I mean, it's going to be a very small amount. Is that correct?Elon MuskYeah, yeah.David FaberHow do you see it ramping up?Elon MuskWell, we'll have to see how well it does, but you know, I think it's prudent for us to start with a small number, confirm that things going well and then scale it up proportionate to how well we see it's doing.David FaberRight. And what's going to be a judge of how well it's doing?Elon MuskAre there any incidents, are there any interventions? But we want to deliberately take it slow and we start with a thousand or ten thousand on day one, but I don't think that would be prudent. So we'll start with probably 10 for a week, then increase it to 20, 30, 40, and I think by say it would probably be at a thousand within a few months and then we'll expand to other cities.So expand to San Francisco, California, Los Angeles.David FaberPossibility in the not too distant future. I mean, Texas very different than California when it comes to regulation. They don't really have much here in terms of dealing with autonomous. But it's a different story in California.Elon MuskCalifornia's already approved. Waymo's been doing autonomous driving.David FaberI know they have.Elon MuskRight now the approval process is very haphazard and sort of state by state and sometimes city by city.David FaberWe were talking to Secretary of Transportation about that very fact a moment ago.Elon MuskIt's going to be important to have a unified set of natural regulations for self driving cars. Otherwise you're going to get into this weird Situation where if you're driving from Maine to New York, you're going to go through 10 different sets of regulations, cars going to behave differently. It's not going to make any sense.So. So one set of regulations that just like there is for highway driving, that's what I think makes sense for the country as a whole. My prediction is that probably by the end of next year, we'll have probably hundreds of thousands, if not over a million Teslas doing self driving in theDavid FaberUS what percentage of those are going to be? Well, not the cyber cab you're just talking about. On full self driving.Elon MuskLevel 4, unsupervised full self driving, you do not need to pay attention.David FaberRight. For me, if I own a Tesla and I have the software, the capabilityElon Muskof doing it, yes.David FaberRight.Elon MuskWe'll have a model which is kind of like some combination of Uber and Airbnb. So if you're a Tesla owner, you'll be able to add or subtract your car to the fleet. Just like an Airbnb, you could rent out your spare bedroom or your house when you're not using it, and the same thing will be available for Tesla owners. So it's a way for Tesla owners to own revenue.Instead of having your car sit in the parking lot, your car could be earning money.David FaberWe talked, you and I talked about that a couple of years ago. Somewhat ambitious target. Why do you have the confidence now that in a year there'll be a million available?Elon MuskWell, in the end of 18 months, 1 86. Okay. Yeah. Once you have a proof point, once you have it working, then scaling up is just a matter of time. But once it's working well in Austin, then we'll make sure it works well in other cities. I mean, there are obviously some unique cases like downtown New York, but that's a highly unusual situation.Most cities in America are like Austin.David FaberAlthough you can go on full self driving right now in New York, I mean, you can obviously have to sit there behind the wheel, but. And it'll do it.Elon MuskOh yeah.David FaberIt'll navigate the traffic. I've seen it.Elon MuskYes. Even a Tesla that you buy right now and the self driving just cost $9 a month, will give you autonomous driving anywhere in the country. Right now the question is, when is it unsupervised?David FaberWhere you're sitting in the back, so to speak?Elon MuskYes. Where you're like asleep. And the car, you wake up at your destination. In order for that to be the case, we want the autonomous car to be much safer than a car driven By a person.David FaberRight. But, you know, I'll come to Waymo because even though they only have about 700 cars, they obviously are on the market. They're in Beverly Hills, all over theElon Muskplace of a concept.David FaberThey've got 28 cameras. They've got LIDAR and radar. You've had a different approach, the eight to nine cameras and the neural network. Why do you feel that that is going to be the equivalent in terms of safety profile?Elon MuskOh, I think it'll be better.David FaberWhy?Elon MuskBecause the way that the road system is designed is for intelligence, biological neural net and eyes. That's how the whole road system is designed. So what will actually work best for the road system is artificial intelligence, digital neural nets and cameras. And we'll also have the microphones near emergency vehicles, that kind of thing, right?Yeah.David FaberYou need to hear a fire engine or a police car. Yes, exactly right.Elon MuskBut that's how the whole road system is designed. It's not designed for shooting lasers out of your eyes. And what we found is that when you have multiple sensors, they tend to get confused. So do you believe the camera or do you believe lidar? They get confused. That's what can lead to accidents. So we used to have, for example, radar in the car, but we found that the radar and the camera would sort of disagree and then you don't know which one to believe.David FaberSo it wasn't a bad expense. Are you seeing the data?Elon MuskRight. In fact, we turned off the radars in the cars.David FaberYou turned off the radar. If I were to say to you, all right, let's go. Do you think that you're there in terms of the safety profile you're seeing right now?Elon MuskYeah. We could take a ride today if you want. Sure.David FaberYeah. I'm happy to take a ride with you anytime you want, wherever you want. Logistics capability to operate sort of a ride hailing fleet at scale. Because you mentioned obviously, what's called the end of 26. Are you going to have an app? Are you there? Do you have that ability?Elon MuskI think we could figure out anDavid Faberapparently tells me you're not worried about it.Elon MuskWhich has already has an app.David FaberYeah, I know. X. I can probably do it for you in like an hour.Elon MuskApps just fine.David FaberDo you ever consider licensing the technology?Elon MuskYes, yes. I mean, there are a number of major automakers that have talked to us about licensing self driving and are very much open to that. I think the more we demonstrate the capability of self driving, the more that they will want to license it. And we're happy to help you know,David Faberback to the safety profile, because it's going to obviously be something key focus. I saw this over the weekend. They did a test between Waymo and Tesla.Elon MuskIt's not a real publication.David FaberRegardless of whether we want to have a debate about their journalistic integrity, the test itself, let me just share with you and get your reaction, which was the Waymo, ultimately they said proved better in part only because it avoided with its Geo fencing one very difficult intersection that the Tesla chose to go through.It stopped at a red light, but then it went through the red light. What's your reaction?Elon MuskLook, I'm not going to comment on some Business Insider article, but is thatDavid Fabera concern at all? Because in a way there's no geofencing. So it's like happy to go on up highways in a way that perhaps a Waymo is not. I guess my question is, is that a concern at all for you in terms of it encountering things that are still sort of a crucial test and perhaps it fails?Elon MuskNo. First of all, that actually should have been a test of supervised self driving and not unsupervised self driving. So the assumption there is that you have a person who is going to take over.David FaberRight.Elon MuskSo their test made no sense.David FaberOkay.Elon MuskBut when we deploy the cars in Austin, we are actually going to deploy not to the entire Austin region, but only the parts of Austin that we can see considered to be the safest. So we will geofence it? Yeah, of course, yeah. It's not going to take intersections unless we are highly confident it'll just take a route around that intersection.David FaberBut there won't be a safety driver in the car, correct? Right, the car. It won't. There's not going to be somebody sitting there. But you did have ads for vehicle operator autopilots. What was that about then? Are there going to be people who are remotely sort of monitoring the performance of the fleet?Elon MuskYeah.David FaberAnd what will they do?Elon MuskThat out script? We're going to be extremely paranoid about the deployment, as we should be. Foolish not to be. We'll be watching what the cars are doing very carefully. As confidence grows, you know, less that will be needed.David FaberYou know, again, you spoke about it and we spoke about it a couple of years ago and obviously your investor base, many of whom are watching right now, are interested in the revenue and profit ability of this ride. Hailing autopilot and autonomous driving opportunity. Ewad, I believe at this point in China is now offering levels of autonomy for free.I mean, are you confident you're going to be in A position to continue to get a premium for that particular level?Elon MuskWell, interestingly, in China, we're not allowed to train on videos in China. So when we released full self driving was actually just trained on the rest of the world, but not in China. And the tests by local Chinese publications, I think concluded that even without training on local Chinese roads, the Tesla self driving was the best.It was the best, yes.David FaberBut again, I mean, is the technologyElon Musksome pretty wild videos where people like doing self driving, which we don't recommend, obviously, on like narrow mountain roads, including one where it's. There's a sharp precipice on either side and no barriers.David FaberAre you regulated Tap? Where are you in China right now in terms of your ability to offer that product, though, understood, unsupervised.Elon MuskWe have supervised full self driving where there's a person in the car has approval in China, but whenever we release a new version, we have to get an incremental approval. And at times we do have to battle other car companies in China whoDavid Faberare trying to stop us from incredibly competitive market.Elon MuskChina is the most competitive market, extentDavid Faberbyd, which is neck and neck with you, I think, in the EV race, I think it's fair to say, worldwide. Correct?Elon MuskI don't really follow that.David FaberWell, they're willing, again, my question is they're willing to seemingly offer different levels of autonomy for. I don't want to call it free,Elon Muskbut I don't really think about competitors. I just think about making the product as perfect as possible.David FaberYou don't think about competitors at all?Elon MuskI just think about breaking. What we want to achieve is the platonic ideal of the perfect product. And as long as you focus on that, you will have a compelling product, obviously.David FaberAll right, well, there's a potentially compelling product right behind you, which is a Robotaxi. So when are we, you know, is in five years. Are they going to be all over the place?Elon MuskYes, they will.David FaberYou're confident?Elon MuskYeah.David FaberTalking about Tesla, obviously, you know, takes me to a certain extent to what some would say is the brand damage done by your government service. I don't know if you would agree with that. There have been some pros and cons. You know, we sat here two years ago upstairs, and you famously said when I asked you about this very subject, I don't care.I'm going to say what I want to say and so be it. Do you regret that?Elon MuskNo.David FaberWhy not?Elon MuskI believe that we want to live in a free society where people are allowed to say what they want to say within reasonable Bounds like, you know, you can't advocate for the murder of somebody, but free speech is the bedrock of a functioning democracy. That's why it's the First Amendment.David FaberWithout a doubt. But I guess my question is more about your work at Doge, for example. Was that worth it? You know, to the extent you are now, Elon Musk, you are a somewhat divisive figure two years ago, but now you really are. I mean, there are people who love you, but there are a lot of people who dislike you, some of whom were your customers.And I wonder, was it worth the undertaking at Doge and everything else that you've done and how outspoken you've been in terms of the things you believe in to antagonize so many potential buyers and or users of things like a robot?Elon MuskUnfortunately, what I've learned is that legacy media propaganda is very effective at making people believe things that aren't true.David FaberAn example of that, that I'm a Nazi.Elon MuskAnd how many legacy media publications, talk shows, whatever, try to claim that I was a Nazi because of some random hand gesture at a rally where all I said was that my heart goes out to you, and I was talking about space travel, and yet the legacy media promoted that as though that was a deliberate Nazi gesture, when in fact, every politician, any public speaker who's spoken for any length of time has made the exact same gesture.And yet there's still people out there. And I've never had a single person.David FaberYou know what, Elon? I was.Elon MuskYou asked for an example, talk toDavid Faberyou about it, because, in fact, I number of people who are close to you, and I called them afterwards, and all of them, to a person, were like, no way. No way.Elon MuskOf course not.David FaberBut that isn't necessarily the perception. The work you've done for Doge has also come obviously into the spotlight in a great deal. And, you know, people are upset about USAID being put into the wood chipper. People are upset about AmeriCorp disappeared hearing. People are upset about, and this isn't even on your side, the NIH and so many other areas that they feel rightly or wrongly are being cut as a result of your efforts.And I just, I guess, I wonder, as you start to transition now back to Tesla in a more significant way,Elon Muskany program in USAID that had any semblance of merit was retained and folded into the State Department. So. And if there's some exception to that, we're all ears and we'd love to look at it. We just want to see the evidence that the program was actually doing good and not just funding draft in D.C. and warlords in some countries.Over and over again we saw sympathetic sounding programs.David FaberRight.Elon MuskBut when we actually said, well, please show us, show us pictures of the recipients of the aid, we just let us get into contact with them. No pictures were forthcoming. They didn't give us any contact information. And we're like, look, we're not going to send money to VC grafters and warlords. That's not a good use of money.So that's all we're going to do. Now, invariably, when you stop waste and fraud, it's not like the fraudsters admit their guilt. They don't say like, oh, isn't it so great that the money we were getting, fortunately has been stopped? They will obviously come up with a sympathetic sounding claim. That claim has no merits.David FaberI guess what I would come back to because I talk about economics all day long is, you know, we, to your point, you've been making, we have a deficit that's running at about 6.7% of GDP.Elon MuskRight.David FaberWe have interest costs that are going to be above a trillion. It's not going down next year. You entered this thinking you could cut as much as $1 trillion. You're nowhere near that. It's not really making the dent I think you may have thought you might have been able to achieve in terms of a true problem. Would you agree?Elon MuskWell, first of all, it would obviously be ridiculous to assume that we'd achieve that on day one. So it's only been but, what, four months?David FaberYeah.Elon MuskAnd we've done, by our calculations, improved the deficit by $160 billion.David FaberRight. That's up, you know, that's your number that's out there. A lot of people take issue with it and say, well, you know, taxpayers expenses such as paid leave, that's 135 billion. That's got to come back. IRS collection may go down as a result of cuts there we have some ask Rock it said between 5 and 32 billion is what you've actually said.Elon MuskYou need to ask the right question to ask is what is the best for the actions of the doge.David FaberRight.Elon MuskWhat would the incremental expenditures be in FY26?David FaberYep.Elon MuskBecause, for example, offered earlier, we offered severance and early retirement to a lot of government employees. Many of them took us up on that. That severance went all the way through to September. Yeah. So there's not going to be any savings until October. Right. Because the severance goes through September. So the delta really is what is the spending difference, FY25 versus FY26 as a function of Doge's actions.That's how we calculate the number, and we'll see if that turns out to be true or not.David FaberI mean, by changing the retirement age or really going after some other parts of the budget.Elon MuskWe've tried to go after every part of the budget. Some parts are boring than others about efficiency.David FaberI mean, that would take an act of Congress, obviously, to really make change, first of all.Elon MuskSo I think, in our opinion, we've created $160 billion Delta FY25 to FY26. Very significant. That's 16% of the way towards a trillion in five months. And in order to make progress, we need the consent, obviously, of not just the executive branch, but also the legislative branch and the judicial branch. So if we, you know, and we are advisors, we are not kings here.David FaberI get it.Elon MuskSo why are you attacking this, given that we've made so much progress?David FaberMean the wheat. Not me. I'm not attacking. I'm just asking questions. In fact, I want to ask a lot more about Tesla. I do want to talk about Tesla. I mean, I was talking about brand damage and what you're seeing in the market. You did an interview earlier this morning where you seem to indicate you're starting to see a rebound.Elon MuskYes.David FaberNew automotive revenue was down 20% last quarter. I think 50,000 fewer units were sold in the Q1 versus Q1 a year ago. What is giving you confidence in the automotive business? Or is it all about robotaxis, as you've been saying? And people can't quite see them behind me, the robots as well, really, theElon Muskonly things that matter in the long term are autonomy and optimus. Those overwhelmingly dominate the future of financial success of the company. As for Q1, we had a global factory changeover for the Model Y. So there's a new version of the Model Y that came out which required a factory shutdown across the world. Model Y is the number one selling car of any kind of.David FaberI watched your presentation during your last. Right here.Elon MuskI think it's the one selling car in the world. So, you know, we can't. We can't make cars if the factories are retooling. So the right time to retool is the first quarter, since generally that's when the least demand occurs. But we've seen a major rebound in demand at this point, I feel.David FaberMajor rebound. And I really believe you have seen.Elon MuskYeah, absolutely. I mean, look, for most people, right, when you buy a product how much do you care about the political views of the CEO or do you even know what they are?David FaberYour goal, you've also said, is to produce a million robots. I think by 2030, that's what I had you on the record as saying.Elon MuskI think that's a reasonable target.David FaberAnd then start towards sustainable abundance, which you can get into. But you know, I wonder, we've been talking about autonomous and how long it takes to train the automobile to be able to exceed human capabilities. But what about these robots? To the extent that how much training are they going to need to actually deploy, be able to do various different types of tasks?Is that long time. It's.Elon MuskIt's going to take a lot of compute resources and it'll take time. I think there's certain threshold breakthroughs that we think we can achieve where if, if optimus can. Can watch videos, you know, YouTube videos or how to videos or whatever. And based on that video, just like a human can learn how to do that thing, then you really have test accessibility.That is dramatic because then it can learn anything very quickly. So I think we'll get there. We're not there yet.David FaberRelying on a significant uptick in terms of learning and training.Elon MuskYeah, no, that's why I'm calling it a very significant threshold would be understood the ability to learn from watching a video. Just so.David FaberRight. But at the point opposed to watching a human. Right. Which is. Or having wellness sort of trainer.Elon MuskRight now, I mean right now we're training optimists to do like primitive tasks where a human in a kind of a. What's called a mocap suit and sort of cameras on the head is moving in the way that the robot would move to say pick up an object or open a door. The basic tasks, throwable dance. And I think that's needed to sort of bootstrap the intelligence so you can have the basic functions.Then where I think it gets very interesting and very much like humans is that you want the robot to self play. So you say, how does a child learn? Well, a child has toys. A child plays with the toys, plays with the blocks. You know, at some point figures how to put the triangle in the triangle hole and the circle in the circle hole by doing it over and over again.And the self play. Once you have a lot of robots, you can do this self play which is that you just put the robot in a room with toys and have the robot play with toys.David FaberAnd it will learn.Elon MuskYeah. And you have a reward function. Say like, okay, the goal of the robot is to put, you know that plastic child, you put the circle in the circle, hole, the square, square, all train with hole and keep doing it until it works. And the reward function is succeeding.David FaberAnd there are no advances needed to accomplish that. No advances in AI or compute and things of that nature that can happen.Elon MuskThere are some advances needed, but I don't think these are insurmountable. I think we can solve these things in the next few years.David FaberOkay, so at that time, when millions of these things are coming off a line like we just saw with cars, they're going to be fully autonomous. They're going to come off and, I mean the way you've described it, come at my house and I'm going to be able to say, all right, do the dishes now. I need you to walk the dog.Elon MuskAbsolutely.David FaberHold the baby.Elon MuskIn fact, you really want him. Need to. It'll figure out what you probably want and do what you probably want without you having to ask.David FaberHow many GPUs are you going to need for that?Elon MuskWell, Quite a few GPUs. We do have our own program called Dojo for Training, which I think will be helpful.David FaberThat's contributing about 5% towards self driving, right?Elon MuskYeah.David FaberIs that the one in New York? In New York state, yeah.Elon MuskYeah. Yes, in Europe. So we expect to still buy a lot of GPUs from Nvidia, some from AMD and maybe from others. And as long as Nvidia is better than what we make, we'll keep buying from Nvidia.David FaberIs that the case right now? It is, yeah. I mean, you're obviously buying for xi, the Memphis big time, right?Elon MuskYeah. XI is building the most powerful. I think we have the most powerful training cluster in the world right now, which is over 200,000 GPUs. Training coherently.David FaberYou're at 200,000 already now there in Memphis. That facility. That.Elon MuskOkay. Yes.David FaberWhere are you going?Elon MuskAnd the will be at the million GPU level in the location just near Memphis.David FaberA million GPUs for a new location or 800,000 additional GPU.Elon MuskA million of the next generation GPUs. So the Blackwell well. Yeah.David FaberWait, are you building that now?Elon MuskYeah. How are you powering. It's a gigawatt class system. Yeah. You do naturally, but it is a hard problem.David FaberWhich is the hard problem?Elon MuskGetting a gigawatt online.David FaberYeah.Elon MuskAnd actually having the gigawatts of power be reliable because you get the power fluctuations in the grid and that whatnot. So we're using. Actually I just posted something online Today, which is a whole bunch of Tesla megapacks, batteries that are important for power conditioning the grid so that GPUs do not like power fluctuations.They're like, they like a power steady. So and then if there are sometimes there's slight brownouts or if there's a blackout, you want to be able to carry through that like an uninterruptible power supply. So we've got a lot of megapacksDavid Faberthere to support that.Elon MuskIt'll be the first gigawatt class training cluster in the world and the most powerful training.David FaberWhen that's going to be done?Elon MuskHopefully in about six months, maybe nine months.David FaberAnd that's largely powering Groq.Elon MuskYes. Yeah, it's just power and gr.David FaberRight. Which continues to advance. I mean I use it frequently. Yeah, I saw you using that on the joke was it with Rogan, when you're using that mode. What is that mode where I'm all sassy and curses all the.Elon MuskWell, I mean if you want to have fun at parties, Grok unhinged mode is pretty funny. Yeah, it's next level.David FaberIs power going to be the gating issue for our ability to continue to advance? And I. Yeah, I think we're.Elon MuskI mean a few years ago I made a very obvious prediction which is that the limitation on AI will be chips and it's full chips kind of chips today. Then it will be electrical equipment for the. Because you need to take power at that might be at 300,000 volts, all the way down to 400 volts for the, for the computer. So these step down transformers and a lot of them and a lot of, you know, cabling and wiring and fuses and you know, it's a.It's a lot of transformers essentially. And the electrical transformer industry is not used to big changes in demand.David FaberNo, there's a shortage of transformers.Elon MuskLiterally a shortage of transformers. And then funnily enough, the AI algorithm is called a Transformer. And then our Optimus robot is named after Optimus Prime. That's a Transformer robot. So we have transformers for Transformers.David FaberRight? Right. But it's the one Transformer is the one in shortage that the others need.Elon MuskAnd then as we solve the transport shortage, there will be the fundamental electricity generation shortage.David FaberAnd are we there yet or are we going to be there soon?Elon MuskGetting there soon. My guess is people start hitting challenges with power generation maybe by middle of next year, end of next year.David FaberEven with deregulation, an effort being made to perhaps movements a lot more quickly.Elon MuskLike how many Power plants are getting built. And how fast can you build a power plant?David FaberRight. China seems to be building them pretty quickly.Elon MuskChina has so many power plants that have been built and are being built. I don't think people quite realize this. I posted on my account just the graph of US power generation versus China power generation. The China power generation is like a rocket going orbit and the US power generation is flat.David FaberRight.Elon MuskSo I think by the end of this year, China will have about two and a half times the power output of the United States and it's headed towards maybe three or four times the power of the United States.David FaberYou know, it's funny when you think about China. I mean, EVs, autonomous, we talked about batteries, solar power generation, by the way, even biotechnology recently. I don't know if you saw Pfizer's licensing cancer drugs. Are they ahead of us in certain areas that are important?Elon MuskThe United States still has an advantage in breakthrough innovation. But and I think it's somewhat of a cultural thing, which is that to have breakthrough innovation you have to question authority. That fundamentally your breakthrough. You're questioning the conventional wisdom when you do a breakthrough innovation.David FaberRight.Elon MuskIn China that are generally like to question the authority or that's not as encouraged as it is in the usDavid Faberso you seem to be good at finding something and then making it better.Elon MuskYeah. I do want to emphasize that the sheer number of smart, talented people in China who work very hard is amazing. The amount of talents. I mean, I'm an admirer of China's capabilities. I think most people outside of China do not understand the power of China. It really is something special.David FaberYeah. You know, in the time we have left, I would like to sort of keep the focus on X. First of all, you know, you spoke earlier about wanting more control at Tesla. Would you ever consider merging Xi into Tesla would be a way. Obviously they could issue shares to you and conceivably would increase your overall economics.Is that a possibility?Elon MuskWell, I guess anything's possible, but it would be difficult to speculate about something, you know, tens of publicly traded stocks.David FaberI would think to get a majority of the minority vote or what, whatever you might need might be not easy.Elon MuskYeah, it's not out of the question, but that would have to be something that the Tesla shareholders would want to vote for.David FaberUnderstood. So. But it's not something you're thinking about doing.Elon MuskIt's not currently there are no plans to do so.David FaberRight.Elon MuskIt's not out of the question, but obviously it would require Tesla shareholder support for that.David FaberAnother way you could obviously increase your control would be to get that comp plan passed in Delaware or through the Delaware Supreme Court or a new one. You haven't been paid, I believe, since 2018.Elon MuskYeah.David FaberWhere are you? Seven years. Where are you on seven years ofElon Muskzero faith, you know, although, to beDavid Faberfair, if it goes through, you're going to have an enormous payday. Finally more money than anybody's ever made.Elon MuskYeah, I suppose so. But, I mean, let's just say that if any CEO of the Fortune 500 were to agree to a plan like the one that I agreed to, you should buy the stock that company immediately.David FaberNo, I remembered at the time fair. The targets were so far above where the stock was, and obviously they were met.Elon MuskYes.David FaberIs the board working, to your knowledge, on another potential plan, if in fact the one never gets out of Delaware? The Supreme Court rules against the Chancellor's ruling.Elon MuskI mean, I don't want to speak on behalf of the board, but, you know, I'm sure it's on their mind, but, you know, I can't comment on terms of board deliberations.David FaberYou said earlier, I mean, you want to stay as CEO. Why not? You know, I've wondered, Eli, given all the heat you've gotten in a lot of ways, why not sort of become like an Ellison Light figure at Tesla? Obviously you're a lot younger, but still, he's very influential at Oracle, but, you know, he's not CEO and he doesn't get the attention, at least not in title.Elon MuskI think maybe a better term for. I'm a huge fan of Larry Ellson. It's good. Better line. Owner. Owner, I think would be.David FaberYeah.Elon MuskHe's the owner of Oracle.David FaberYes, he is, and he has a lot of it. Finally, I want to start the CEO,Elon Muskhe's just the owner.David FaberOwner. Yeah. It's a big percentage. A lot higher than yours, actually, at Tesla.Elon MuskYes, Impressive percentage at Oracle.David FaberFinally. I want to. I mean, so many things we haven't gotten to, but we're trying to keep to your time. Are we ready for the changes that AI is going to bring to this society? You know, I try my job every day to sort of follow them. Obviously, they've been pushed aside to a certain extent by issues of the day. Yeah, it's coming fast.Elon MuskIt's going very fast. I mean, I feel like we're, you know, we're in the big bang of the intelligence explosion. Like we're in for watching. We have courtside seats to the big bang of intelligence explosion. One thing's for sure. It won't be boring now.David FaberSo if you'd be saying there's a 20% chance of annihilation is often anymore,Elon MuskI think we should always consider that there's some chance of a bad outcome to try to protect against the bad outcomes. We don't want to be complacent and say that everything's just going to be fine. There's no chance of a bad outcome. I sort of think of this maybe in movie terms as like are we in a Star Trek movie or are we in a Gene Roddenberry movie or a James Cameron movie?Which movie are we in here? And if you could either have a Roddenberry or a Cameron outcome. I think in this case we want the Roddenberry outcome.David FaberYeah. And the abundance that may come with it. Going to miss the White House at all or not?Elon MuskMy rough plan on the White House is to be there for a couple of days every, every, every few weeks and to be helpful where I can be helpful.