← BackSeptember 7, 2018The Joe Rogan ExperienceWithJoe Rogan0:00 / 0:00CC1×YouTubeThe Joe Rogan ExperienceSeptember 7, 2018Elon Musk's much-discussed first appearance on Joe Rogan: AI, simulation, electric cars and tunnels.Elon Musk's much-discussed first appearance on Joe Rogan: AI, simulation, electric cars and tunnels.TranscriptJoe RoganAh hahaha.4, 3, 2, 1. Boom. Thank you. Thanks for doing this, man. Really appreciate it.Elon MuskHey, welcome.Joe RoganIt's very good to meet you.Elon MuskNice to meet you too.Joe RoganAnd thanks for not lighting this place on fire.Elon MuskYou're welcome. That's coming later.Joe RoganHow does one just in the middle of doing all the things you do, create cars, rockets, all this stuff you're doing, constantly innovating, decide to just make a flamethrower? Where do you have the time for that?Elon MuskWell, we didn't put a lot of time into the flamethrower. This was an off the cuff thing. And so it's sort of a hobby company called the Boring Company, which started out as a joke and we decided to make it real and dig a tunnel.And then other people asked us to dig tunnels and so we said yes in a few cases. And then we have a merchandise section that only has one piece of merchandise at a time. And we started off with a cap and there was only one thing, it was just boringcompany.com cap or hat. That's it. And then we sold the hats, limited edition.It just said the Boring Company. And then I'm a big fan of Spaceballs the movie. And in Spaceballs, yogurt goes through the merchandising section and they have a flamethrower in the merchandising section of Spaceballs.And like the kids love that one. That's the line when he pulls out the flamethrower, it's like, we should do a flamethrower. So we.Joe RoganDoes anybody tell you no? Does anybody go, elon, maybe for yourself. But selling a flamethrower, the liabilities, all the people you're selling this device to, what kind of unhinged people are going to be buying a flamethrower in the first place? Do we really want to connect ourselves to all these potential arsonists?Elon MuskYeah. It's a terrible idea. Terrible. Shouldn't buy one. I don't. I said don't buy this flamethrower. Don't buy it. Don't buy it. That's what I said. But still people bought it. There's nothing I can do to stop them.Joe RoganThey will come.Elon MuskI said don't buy it. It's a bad idea.Joe RoganHow many did you make?Elon MuskIt's dangerous, it's got, it's wrong. Don't buy it. Still people bought it. I just couldn't stop them.Joe RoganHow many did you make?Elon Musk20,000.And they're all gone in three, I think four days. They sold out in four days.Joe RoganAre you gonna do a another run? No, no, that's it.Elon MuskYes. I said we would do 20. We did 50,000. 50,000 hats.And that was a million dollars. And. Okay, well, will sell something for 10 million. And that was 20,000 flamethrowers at $500 each.They went fast.Joe RoganHow do you have the time to do that, though? I mean, I understand that it's not a big deal in terms of all the other things that you do, but how do you have time to do anything? I just, I don't understand your time management skills.Elon MuskI mean, I didn't spend much time on this flamethrower. I mean, to be totally frank, it's actually just a roofing torch with an air rifle cover.It's not a real flamethrower, which isJoe Roganwhy it says not a flamethrower.Elon MuskThat's why we were very clear this is not actually a flamethrower. And also we were told that various countries would ban shipping of it, they would ban flamethrowers. So we very to solve this problem for all the customs agencies, we labeled it not a flamethrower.Joe RoganDid it work? Is it effective?Elon MuskI don't know. I think so, yeah. So far, yes. Now, but you said you cannot surp a flamethrower.Joe RoganBut you do so many different things. Forget about the flamethrower. Like how do you do all that other shit? How does one decide to fix LA traffic? By drilling holes in the ground. And who do you even approach with that? Like when you have this idea, who do you talk to about that?Elon MuskI mean, I'm not saying it's going to be successful or so you know, I asserting that it's going to be successful. But so far I've lived in LA for 16 years and the traffic has always been terrible. And so I don't see any other ideas for improving the traffic. So in desperation, we're going to dig a tunnel. And maybe that tunnel will be successful and maybe it won't.Joe RoganI'm listening.Elon MuskYeah. I'm not trying to convince you it's going to work.Joe RoganAnd are the people or anyone. But you were starting this, though. This is actually a project you're starting to implement, right?Elon MuskYeah, no, we've dug about a mile, it's quite long. Takes a long time to walk it.Joe RoganYeah. Now when you're doing this, what is the ultimate plan? The ultimate plan is to have these in major cities and anywhere there's mass congestion. And just try it out in LA first.Elon MuskYeah, it's in LA because I mostly Live in la. That's the reason it's a terrible place to dig tunnels. This is one of the worst places to dig tunnels because, mostly because of the paperwork, people think it's like, what about seismic? It's like, actually tunnels are very safe in earthquakes.Joe RoganWhy is that?Elon MuskEarthquakes are essentially a surface phenomenon. It's like waves on the ocean. So if there's a storm, you want to be in a submarine. So being in a tunnel is like being in a submarine. Now, the way the tunnel is constructed is it's constructed out of these interlocking segments, kind of like a snake. It's sort of like a snake exoskeleton with double seals.And so even when the ground moves, the tunnel actually is able to shift along with the ground like an underground snake. And it doesn't crack or break. And it's extremely unlikely that both seals would be broken. And it's capable of taking 5 atmospheres of pressure. It's waterproof, methane proof, or gas proof of any kind, and meets all California seismic requirements.Joe RoganSo when you have this idea, who do you bring this to?Elon MuskI'm not sure what you mean by that.Joe RoganWell, when you, you're, you're implementing it so you're digging holes in the ground, like, you have to bring it to someone that lets you do it.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganSoElon Muskthere were, there were some engineers from SpaceX who were, who thought it would be cool to do this. And the guy who runs it like day to day, Steve Davis, He's a longtime SpaceX engineer. He's great.So Steve was like, I'd like to help make this happen. I was like, cool. So we started off with digging a hole in the ground. It's got like a permit for a pit, big pit, and just dug a big pit.Joe RoganAnd you have to tell them what the pit's for, or you just say, hey, we just want to dig a hole nice.Elon MuskFill out this form.Joe RoganThat's it.Elon MuskYeah, it was a pit in our parking lot and.Joe RoganBut do you have to give them some sort of a blueprint for your ultimate idea? And do they have to approve it? Like, how does that work?Elon MuskNow we just started off with a pit.Joe RoganOkay, big pit.Elon MuskAnd now, you know, there's not really, you know, don't really care about the existential nature of a pit. You just say like, I don't want a pit.Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskYou know, and it's a hole in the ground. So then we got the permit for the pit and we dug the pit and we dug it in like, I don't know three days. Two. Three days, actually. 48 hours, something like that.Because Eric Garcetti was coming by for the hype to. He was going to attend the hyperloop competition, which is like a student competition we have for who can make the fastest possible pod in the hyperloop. And he was coming. This was the finals are going to be on Sunday afternoon. And so Eric was coming by on Sunday afternoon, was like, you know, we should take this pit and then, like, show Eric.So we. This is like Friday morning and then. Yeah. So it was about a little over 40 hours. 40 hours later we dug the pit. It was like, when. 24. 7. Oh, 24, 48 straight hours, something like that. And dug this big pit.And we're like, showed Eric the pit. Like, obviously it's just a pit, but, hey, hole in the ground is better than no hole in the ground.Joe RoganAnd what do you tell them about this pit? I mean, you said, this is the beginning of this idea. We're going to build tunnels under LA to help funnel traffic better. And they just go, okay, we've joked around about this in the podcast before. They're like, what other person can go to the people that run the city and go, hey, we're going to dig some holes on the ground, put some tunnels in there.And they go, oh, yeah. Okay.Elon MuskNothing wrong with a hole in the ground.Joe RoganBut it's.Elon MuskPeople dig holes in the ground all the time.Joe RoganBut my question is, I know how much time you must be spending on your Tesla factory. I know how much time you must be spending on SpaceX. And yet you still have time to dig holes under the ground in LA and come up with these ideas and then implement them.Elon MuskI got a million ideas.Joe RoganI'm sure you do.Elon MuskThere's no shortage of that.Joe RoganYeah, I just don't know how you manage your time. I don't understand. Doesn't even seem humanly possible.Elon MuskYou know, I do, basically. I think people don't totally understand what I do with my time. They think, like, I'm a business guy or something like that. Like, my Wikipedia page says business magnate.Joe RoganWhat would you call yourself?Elon MuskI'm a business magnet. Can someone please change my Wikipedia page to Magnet?Joe RoganThey'll change it. Right now, it's probably changed. It's locked.Elon MuskSo somebody has to be able to unlock it and change it to Magnet. Someone will get, I want to be a magnet.No, I do engineering and manufacturing and that kind of thing. That's like 80% more of my time ideas.Joe RoganAnd then the implementation of those ideas,Elon Muskthat's like hardcore engineering, like designing things, you know?Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskStructural, mechanical, electrical, software, user interface engineering, aerospace engineering.Joe RoganBut you must understand there's not a whole lot of human beings like you. You know that, right? So you're an oddity. Seems, yes, to chimps like me.Elon MuskWe're all chimps.Joe RoganYeah, we are.Elon MuskWe're one notch. One notch above a chimp.Joe RoganSome of us are a little more confused. When I watch you doing all these things, I'm like, how does this motherfucker have all this time and all this energy and all these ideas, and then people just let them do these thingsElon MuskBecause I'm an alien.Joe RoganThat's what I've speculated, yes. I'm on record saying this in the past. I wonder. It's true. If there was one, I was like, if there was like, maybe an intelligent being that we created, you know, like some AI creature that's superior to people, maybe we'd just hang around with us for a little while, like you've been doing, and then fix a bunch of shit.Maybe that's the way.Elon MuskI might have some mutation or something like that.Joe RoganYou might. Do you think you do? Probably do you wonder, like, you around normal people, you're like, hmm, like, what's up with these boring, dumb motherfuckers ever?Elon MuskNot bad for a human. But I think we'll not be able to hold a candle to AI.Joe RoganHmm. You scare the shit out of me when you talk about AI. Between you and Sam Harris, I didn't even consider it until I had a podcast with Sam once. He made me shit my pants talking about AI. I realized, like, oh, well, this is a genie that once it's out of the bottle, you're never getting it back in.Elon MuskThat's true.Joe RoganThere was a video that you tweeted about one of those Boston Dynamic robots, and you're like, in the future, it'll be moving so fast you can't see it without a strobe light.Elon MuskYeah, you could probably do that right now.Joe RoganAnd no one's really paying attention too much, other than people like you or people that are really obsessed with technology. All these things are happening and these robots are. Did you see the one where PETA put out a statement that you shouldn't kick robots?Elon MuskProbably not wise for retribution. Their memory is very good.Joe RoganI bet it's really good.Elon MuskIt's really good.Joe RoganI bet it is.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganAnd getting better every day.Elon MuskIt's really good.Joe RoganAre you honestly, legitimately concerned about this? Is, like, AI one of your main worries in regards to the future?Elon MuskYes. It's less of a worry than it used to be, mostly due to taking more of a fatalistic attitude.Joe RoganSo you used to have more hope and you gave up some of it. And now you don't worry as much about AI. You're like, this is just what it is?Elon MuskPretty much, yes. No, it's not necessarily bad.It's just. It's definitely going to be outside of human control.Joe RoganNot necessarily bad, right?Elon MuskYes, it's not necessarily bad. It's just outside of human control. Now the thing that's going to be tricky here is that it's going to be very tempting to use AI as a weapon. It's going to be very tempting. In fact, it will be used as a weapon.So the on ramp to serious AI, the danger is going to be more humans using it against each other. I think most likely that will be the danger, yeah.Joe RoganHow far do you think we are from something that can make its own mind up whether or not something's ethically or morally correct, or whether or not it wants to do something, or whether or not it wants to improve itself, or whether or not it wants to protect itself from people or from other AI? How far away from something that's really truly sentient?Elon MuskWell, I mean, you could argue that any group of people, a company, is essentially a cybernetic collective of people and machines. That's what a company is.And then there are different.There's different levels of complexity in the way these companies are formed.And then there's this sort of like a collective AI in the Google search, where we're all sort of plugged in as nodes on the network, like leaves on a big tree.And we're all feeding this network without questions and answers. We're all collectively programming the AI and Google plus. The older humans that connect to it are one giant cybernetic collective. This is also true of Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and all these social networks.They're giant cybernetic collectives,Joe Roganhumans and electronics all interfacing and constantly now. Constantly connected.Elon MuskYes, constantly.Joe RoganOne of the things that I've been thinking about a lot over the last few years is that one of the things that drives a lot of people crazy is how many people are obsessed with materialism and getting the latest, greatest thing. And I wonder how much of that is. Well, a lot of it is most certainly fueling technology and innovation.It almost seems like it's built into us. It's like what we like and what we want, that we're fueling this thing that's constantly around us all the time. And it doesn't seem possible that people are going to pump the brakes. It doesn't seem possible at this stage where we're constantly expecting the newest cell phone, the latest Tesla Update, the newest MacBook Pro.Everything has to be newer and better. And that's going to lead to some incredible point. And it seems like it's built into us. It almost seems like it's an instinct that we were working towards this, that we like it. Our job, just like the ants build the anthill, our job is to somehow another fuel this.Elon MuskYes. I mean, when I made this comment some. Some years ago, but it feels like we are the biological bootloader for AI. Effectively, we are building it and then we're building progressively greater intelligence and the percentage of intelligence that is not human is increasing and eventually we will represent a very small percentage of intelligence.But the AI is informed, strangely, by the human limbic system.It is, in large part our Idrit Lodge.Joe RoganHow so?Elon MuskWell, you mentioned all those things, the sort of primal drives.There's all the things that we like, add hate and fear.They're all there on the Internet, their projection of our limbic system.That's true.Joe RoganNo, it makes sense. And the thinking of it as a. I mean, think of thinking of corporations and just thinking of just human beings communicating online through these social media networks as some sort of an organism. That's a. It's a cyborg, It's a combination. It's a combination of electronics and biology.Elon MuskYeah.In some measure, like the success of these online systems is sort of a function of how much limbic resonance they're able to achieve with people. The more limbic resonance, the more engagement.Joe RoganMm. Whereas, like, one of the reasons why probably Instagram is more enticing than Twitter.Elon MuskLimbic resonance.Joe RoganYeah. You get more images, more video.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganTweaking your system more.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganDo you worry about or wonder, in fact about what the next step is? A lot of people didn't see Twitter coming that, you know, communicating with 140 characters or 280 now would be a thing that people would be interested in.Like it's going to accelerate. It's going to become more connected to us, right?Elon MuskYes. Things are getting more and more connected. They're at this point constrained by bandwidth. Our input output is slow, particularly output. Output got worse with thumbs. We used to have input with 10 fingers, now we have thumbs up. But images are just. Are also. They're a way of communicating at high bandwidth. You take pictures and you send pictures to people that Communicates far more information than you can communicate with your thumbs.Joe RoganSo what happened with you, where you decided or you took on a more fatalistic attitude? Was there any specific thing or was it just the inevitability of our future?Elon MuskI try to convince people to slow down, slow down. AI to regulate AI.This was futile. I tried for years.Joe RoganThis seems seen in a movie. Robots are gonna take over and you're freaking me out. Nobody listened.Elon MuskNobody listened.Joe RoganNo one. Are people more inclined to listen today? It seems like an issue that's brought up more often over the last few years than it was maybe five, 10 years ago. It seemed like science fiction.Elon MuskMaybe they will. So far they haven't.I think people don't like. Normally the way that regulations work is very slow, very slow indeed.So usually it'll be something, some new technology.It will cause damage or death. There will be an outcry, there will be an investigation. Years will pass. There will be some sort of insight committee, there will be rulemaking, then there will be oversight, eventually regulations. This all takes many years. This is the normal course of things. If you look at say automotive regulations, how long did it take for seat belts to be implemented, to be required?The auto industry fought seatbelts, I think for more than a decade successfully fought any regulations on seat belts, Even though the numbers were extremely obvious. If you had a seat belt on, you would be far less likely to die or be seriously injured. It was unequivocal.And the industry fought this for years, successfully.Eventually, after many, many people died, regulators insisted on seat belts.This is a. This time frame is not relevant to AI. You can't take 10 years from the point at which it's dangerous. It's too late.Joe RoganAnd you feel like this is decades away or years away from being too late. If you have this fatalistic attitude and you feel like it's going, we're in a, almost like a doomsday countdown.Elon MuskIt's not necessarily a doomsday countdown.Joe RoganIt's a out of control countdown.Elon MuskOut of control? Yeah. People call it the singularity and that's probably a good way to think about it. It's a singularity. It's hard to predict, like a black hole, what happens past the event horizon.Joe RoganRight. So once it's implemented, it's very difficult because it will be able to, once you change out of the bottle, what's going to happen and it will be able to improve itself.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganThat's where it gets spooky. Right. The idea that it can do thousands of years of innovation very Very quickly.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganAnd then we'll be just ridiculous.Elon MuskRidiculous.Joe RoganWe will be like this ridiculous biological, shitting, pissing thing trying to stop the gods. No, stop. We like living with a finite lifespan and watching Norman Rockwell paintings.Elon MuskIt could be terrible and it could be great. It's not clear.Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskBut one thing is for sure. We will not control it.Joe RoganDo you think that it's likely that we will merge somehow or another with this sort of technology and it will augment what we are now? Or do you think it will replace us?Elon MuskWell, that's the scenario. The merge scenario with AI is the one that seems like probably the best for us. Yes. If you can't beat it, join it.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskSo from a long term existential standpoint, that's like the purpose of neuralink is to create a high bandwidth interface to the brain such that we can be symbiotic with AI because we have a bandwidth problem. You just can't communicate through your fingers. It's too slow.Joe RoganAnd where's neural link at right now?Elon MuskI think we'll have something interesting to announce in a few months that's at least an order of magnitude better than anything else. Probably. I think better than probably anyone thinks is possible.Joe RoganHow much can you talk about that right now?Elon MuskI don't want to drop the gun on that.Joe RoganBut what's like the ultimate. What's. What's the idea behind it? Like, what are you trying to accomplish with it? What would you like, best case scenario?Elon MuskI think best case scenario we effectively merge with AI where AI serves as a tertiary cognition layer, where we've got the limbic system, kind of the primitive brain. Essentially you've got the cortex. So you're currently in a symbiotic relationship. Your cortex and limbic system are in a symbiotic relationship. And generally people like their cortex and they like their limbic system.I haven't met anyone who wants to delete their limbic system or delete their cortex. Everybody seems to like both.And the cortex is mostly in service to the limbic system. People may think that the thinking part of themselves is in charge, but it's mostly their limbic system that's in charge. And the cortex is trying to make the limbic system happy. That's what most of that computing power is oriented towards. How can I make the limbic system happy?Happy. That's what I was trying to do.Now, if we do have a third layer, which is the AI extension of yourself, that is also symbiotic and there's enough bandwidth between the cortex and the AI extension of yourself such that the AI doesn't de facto separate, then that could be a good outcome. That could be quite a positive outcome for the future.Joe RoganSo instead of replacing us, it will radically change our capabilities.Elon MuskYes, it will enable anyone who wants to have superhuman cognition.Anyone who wants. This is not a matter of earning power, because your earning power would be vastly greater after you do it. So it's just like anyone who wants can just do it in theory. That's the theory.And if that's the case, then, and let's say billions of people do it, then the outcome for humanity will be the sum of human will, the sum of billions of people's desire for the future.Joe RoganBut billions of people with enhanced cognitive ability. Radically enhanced, yes. Which would be how much different than people today? Like if you had to explain it to a person who didn't really understand what you were saying. How much different are you talking about when you say radically improved? Like, what do you mean?You mean mind reading?Elon MuskIt would be difficult to really appreciate the difference.It's kind of like how much smarter are you with a phone or computer than without? You're vastly smarter, actually. You can answer any question if you're connected to the Internet. You can answer any question pretty much instantly. Any calculation that your phone's memory is essentially perfect. You can remember flawlessly.Your phone can remember videos, pictures, everything perfectly.Your phone is already an extension of you. You're already a cyborg. You don't even. Well, most people don't realize they are already a cyborg. That phone is an extension of yourself. It's just that the data rate, the rate at which the communication rate between you and the cybernetic extension of yourself that is your phone and computer is slow.It's very slow.And it's like a tiny straw of information flow between your biological self and your digital self. And we need to make that tiny straw like a giant river. Huge high bandwidth interface. It's an interface problem. Data rate problem. Solve the data rate problem. Then I think we can hang on to human machine symbiosis through the long term.And then people may decide that they want to retain their biological self or not.I think they'll probably choose to retainJoe Rogantheir biological self versus some sort of Ray Kurzweil scenario where they download themselves into a computer.Elon MuskYou will be essentially snapshotted into a computer at any time. If your biological self dies, you could just probably just upload into a new unit, literally.Joe RoganPass that whiskey. We're getting crazy over here. This is getting ridiculous.Elon MuskDown the rabbit hole.Joe RoganGrab that sucker. Give me some of that. This is too freaky. See if I've been thinking about thisElon Muskfor a long time.Joe RoganBy the way, I believe you have. If I was talking to one. Cheers, by the way.Elon MuskCheers. Yeah. This is a great whiskey.Joe RoganThank you.I know where this came from. Who brought this to us? Trying to remember somebody gave it to us. Old camp. Whoever it was, thanks. Yeah, it is good.This is just inevitable. Again, going back to your. When you decided to have this fatalistic viewpoint. So you warned. You tried to warn people. You talked about this pretty extensively. I've read several interviews where you talked about this. And then you just sort of just said, okay, it just is. Let's just. And you.In a way you're. By communicating the potential fear. I mean, for sure, you're. You're getting the warning out to some people.Elon MuskYeah, yeah. I mean, I was really going on the warning quite, quite a lot. I was warning everyone I could.You ever met with Obama and just for one reason.Joe RoganLook, about AI?Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganAnd what did he say? So what about Hillary?Elon MuskWorry about her first sh.Joe RoganEverybody be quiet.Elon MuskNo, he listened. He certainly listened. I met with Congress. I met with. I was at a meeting of all 50 governors and talked about just AI danger. And I talked to everyone I could.No one seemed to realize where this was going.Joe RoganIs it that? Or do they just assume that someone smarter than them has already taken care of it? Because when people hear about something like AI, it's almost abstract. It's almost. It's almost like it's so. It's so hard to wrap your head around it. By the time it already happens, it'll be too late.Elon MuskYeah, I think they didn't quite understand it or didn't think it was near term or not sure what to do about it. When I said, like, you know, an obvious thing to do is to just establish a committee, government committee, to gain insight, you know, before you do oversight, before you do make regulations, try to understand what's going on.And then if you have an insight committee, then once they learn what's going on, get up to speed, then they can make maybe some rules or propose some rules, and that would be probably a safer way to go about things.Joe RoganIt seems. I mean, I know that it's probably something that the government's supposed to handle, but it seems like I wouldn't want the. I don't want the government to handle this.Elon MuskWho do you want to.Joe RoganI want you to handle.Elon MuskOh, geez.Joe RoganYeah, I feel like, you're the one who could ring the bell better. Because if. If Mike Pence starts talking about AI, I'm like, shut up, bitch. You don't know anything about AI. Come on, man. He doesn't know what he's talking about.Elon MuskBut I don't have the power to regulate other companies. What am I supposed to.Joe RoganBut maybe companies could agree. Maybe there could be some sort of a. I mean, there's. We have agreements where you're not supposed to dump toxic waste into the ocean. You're not supposed to do certain things that could be terribly damaging, even though they'd be profitable. Maybe this is one of those things. Maybe we should realize that you can't hit the switch on something that's going to be able to think for itself and make up its own mind as to whether or not it wants to survive or not, and whether or not it thinks you're a threat and whether or not it thinks you're useless.Like, why do I keep this dumb finite life form alive?Elon MuskWhy.Joe RoganWhy keep this thing around? It's just stupid. It just keeps polluting everything, shitting everywhere it goes, lighting everything on fire and shooting each other. Why would I keep this stupid thing alive? Because sometimes it makes good music, you know, Sometimes it makes great movies, sometimes it makes beautiful art.And sometimes, you know, sometimes it's cool to hang out with, like, all those reasons. Yeah, for us, those are great reasons.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganBut for anything objective, standing outside, like, oh, this is definitely a flawed system. This is like, if you went to the jungle and you watch these chimps engage in warfare and beat each other with mean sticks. They're fucking real mean.Elon MuskFucking mean.Joe RoganThey're real mean.Elon MuskI saw that movie Chimpanzee. I thought it was gonna be like some Disney thing.Joe RoganLike, holy cow, what movie was that?Elon MuskLooks pretty cool. Chimpanzee who?Joe RoganIs it a documentary?Elon MuskYeah, yeah, it's kind of like a documentary. I was like, damn, these chimps are mean.Joe RoganThey're mean.Elon MuskYeah. They're cruel.Joe RoganYeah. They're. They're calculated. Yeah.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganThey sneak up on each other and,Elon Musklike, I didn't realize chimps did calculated cruelty.Joe RoganMm. Yeah.Elon MuskI was pretty left that meeting, kind of thinking, whoa, this is dark, right?Joe RoganWell, we know better because we've advanced. But if we hadn't, we'd be like, man, I don't want to live in a house. I like the chimp ways, bro. Chimp ways to go. This is it, man. Chimp life.I know, but we, in a way, to the AI might be like, those Chimps. I'm like, these stupid. Launching missiles out of drones and shooting each other underwater like, we're crazy. We got torpedoes and submarines and airplanes that drop nuclear bombs indiscriminately on cities or.Yeah, they might go, why are they doing this? It might. Like, look at our politics. Look at what we do in terms of our food system, what kind of food. We force down each other's throats. And they might go, these people are crazy. Don't even look out for themselves.Elon MuskI don't know. I mean, how much do we think about chimps? Not much.Joe RoganVery little.Elon MuskIt's like these chimps are at war. These little chimps. It's like groups of chimps just attack each other and they kill each other. They torture each other. That's pretty bad. They hunt monkeys.They're. But, like, this is probably the most that. You know. I mean, when's the last time you talked about chimps?Joe RoganMe? Yeah, all the time.Elon MuskYou do.Joe RoganTalking to the world. Okay, well, unfortunately, podcast dude, I talk about chimps every episode.Elon MuskOkay.Joe RoganPeople are laughing right now. Yeah, constantly. I'm obsessed. I saw that David Attenborough documentary on chimps where they were eating those colobus monkeys and ripping them apart. I saw that many, many years ago. It just changed how I go. Oh, this is why people are so crazy. We came from that thing.Elon MuskYeah, exactly.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskAnd there's the bonobos.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskThey got a, like, better philosophy.Joe RoganYeah. They're like swingers. Yeah, they really are. They seem to be way more even than us, way more civilized.Elon MuskThey just seem to resolve everything with sex.Joe RoganYeah. The only rules they have is the mom won't bang the son. That's it.Elon MuskOkay, that's it.Joe RoganMom won't bang her sons. They're good women.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganGood women in the bonobo community. Everybody else just banging it out.Elon MuskYeah. I haven't seen the bonobo movie.Joe RoganWell, they're disturbing. Just at a zoo, you know, you have bonobos at the zoo.Elon MuskThey're just constantly going.Joe RoganConstantly fucking. Yeah. That's all they do. Yeah. And they don't care. Gay, straight, whatever. Let's just. What's with these labels?Elon MuskI haven't seen bonobos at a zoo. It's probably, like, not on the PG section. Yeah.Joe RoganI don't think they have them at many zoos. We've looked that up before, too.Elon MuskIt's probably pretty awkward.Joe RoganI think that's the thing. They like to keep regular chimps at zoos because bonobos are just always jacking off.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganWhat's that they have in San Diego.Elon MuskSan Diego. Really?Joe RoganInteresting. Probably separate them. Yeah.Elon MuskI mean, how many other. In a cage, you know, it's like. It's gonna be pretty intense.Joe RoganYeah, yeah, yeah. We're a weird thing, you know, And I've often wondered if whether or not we're, you know, our ultimate goal is to give birth to some new thing and that, that's why we're so obsessed with technology. Because it's not like this technology is really. I mean, it's certainly enhancing our lives in a certain way.But is, I mean, ultimately, is it making people happier right now? Most technology, I would say no. In fact, you and I were talking about social media before this, about just not having Instagram on your phone and not dealing. You feel better.Elon MuskYes. I think one of the issues with social media that's been pointed out by many people is that I think maybe particularly Instagram people look like they have a much better life than they really do.Joe RoganRight. By design.Elon MuskYeah. People are posting pictures of when they're really happy. They're modifying those pictures to be better looking. Even if they're not modifying the pictures, they're at least selecting the pictures for the best lighting, the best angle.So people basically seem.They're way better looking than they basically really are, and they're way happier seeming than they really are. So if you look at everyone on Instagram, you might think, man, there are all these happy, beautiful people and I'm not that good looking and I'm not happy, so I must suck, you know, and that's gonna make people sad.So when in fact those people you think are super happy, actually not that happy. Some of them are really depressed. They're very sad.Some of the happiest seeming people, actually some of the saddest people in reality.And nobody looks good all the time. Doesn't matter who you are.Joe RoganNo, it's not even something you should want. Why do you want to look great all the time?Elon MuskYeah, exactly.So I think things like that can make people quite sad just by comparison, because you just sort of. People generally think of themselves relative to others. It's a. We are constantly re baselining our expectations.And you can see this. Say if you watch some show like Naked and Afraid, or if you just go and try living in the woods by yourself for a while and you'll learn that civilization is quite great.People want to come back to civilization pretty fast. On Naked and Afraid.Joe RoganWasn't that a Thoreau quote? The comparison is a thief of joy.Elon MuskYeah, well, happiness is reality minus Expectations.Joe RoganThat's great too. But the comparison is a thief of joy really holds true to people. Is it Theodore Roosevelt? Roosevelt. Fascinating when you're thinking about Instagram, because what essentially Instagram is with a lot of people is you're giving them the opportunity to be their own PR agent and they always go towards the glamorous, you know, and when any.Anybody does show, you know, hashtag no filter, they really do do that. Like, oh, you're so brave. Look at you. No makeup, you know. Yeah, they look good anyway. You look great. What are you doing? Oh, my God, you don't have makeup on. You still look hot as fuck. You know what you're doing? I know what you're doing, too.They're. They're, they're letting you know. And then they're feeding off that comment section. Ooh, just look sitting there like. Like it's a fresh stream of love. Like you're getting right up to the source as it comes out of the earth and you're suc.Elon MuskA lot of emojis. Emojis. Emojis, yeah, a lot of emojis.Joe RoganMy concern is not so much what Instagram is, is that I didn't think that people had the need for this or the expectation for some sort of technology that allows them to constantly get love and adulation from strangers and comments and this ability to project this sort of distorted version of who you really are. But I worry about where it goes, like, what's the next one?What's the next one? Like, where is it? Is it going to be augmented? Some sort of a weird augmented or virtual sort of Instagram type situation where you're not going to want to live in this real world, you're going to want to interface with this sort of world that you've created through your social media page. Some next level thing.Elon MuskYeah, Go live in the simulation. Yeah, in the simulation.Joe RoganSome ready Player one type shit. That's real. That. Seems we have that HTC Vive here. I've only done it a couple times, quite honestly, because it kind of freaks me out.Elon MuskSure.Joe RoganMy kids fucking love it, man. They love it. They love playing these weirdo games and, and walking around with that headset on. But part of me watching them do it goes, wow, I wonder if this is like the precursor. Just sort of like, if you look at that, that phone that Gordon Gekko had on the beach. Yeah. You pair that to like a Galaxy Note 9.How the fuck did that become that? Right? And I wonder when I see this HTC Vive, I'M like, what is that thing going to be 10 years from now when we're making fun of what it is now? What is it? How, I mean, how ingrained and how, how, how connected and interconnected is this technology going to be in our life?Elon MuskIt will be at some point indistinguishable from reality where we'll lose this.Joe RoganWe lose this. Like you and I just look at each other through our eyes. I see you, see me. I think.Elon MuskI hope you think so.Joe RoganI think you probably have regular eyes.Elon MuskThis could be some simulation.Joe RoganIt could. Do you entertain that?Elon MuskWell, the argument for the simulation, I think is quite strong because if you assume any improvements at all over time, any improvement 1%, 0.1%, just extend the time frame. Make it a thousand years, a million years. The universe is 13.8 billion years old.Civilization, if you counted, if you're very generous, civilization is maybe 7 or 8,000 years old, if you count it from the first writing, this is nothing. This is nothing.So if you assume any rate of improvement at all, then games will be indistinguishable from reality or civilization will end. One of those two things will occur.Therefore, we are most likely in aJoe Rogansimulation or we're on our way to one, right? Well, just because we exist, we could most certainly be on the road. We could be on the road to that, right? It doesn't mean it has to.Elon MuskIt could be in base reality. It could be in base reality.Joe RoganWe could be here now on our way to the road or on our way to the destination where this can never happen again, where we are completely ingrained in some sort of an artificial technology or some sort of a symbiotic relationship with the Internet or the next level of sharing information. But right now we're not there yet.That's possible too, right? It's possible that a simulation is one day going to be inevitable, that we're gonna have something that's indistinguishable from regular reality. But maybe we're not there yet. That's also possible. We're not quite there yet. That this is real. When I touch, that feels very real. Maybe that's why everybody's like in like Mason jars and shit.Elon MuskMason jars.Joe RoganWait, shoes. People are in like craft restaurants and they would. They want raw wood. Everyone says, everyone wants to see metal people. It seems like people are like longing towards some weird log cabin type nostalgia reality. Yeah, like holding on, like clinging, just dragging their nails through the mud. Like, don't take me.Yes, I want to.Elon MuskBut then, But Then people will go get a mason jar with a wine stem or a handle that's dark. Makes me lose faith in humanity.Joe RoganWine stem and a handle. They have those?Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganOh, those dirty people. That's just assholes. That's like people make pet rocks rough. Right. Some people are just. They take advantage of our. Our generous nature.Elon MuskIt was made with a wine stem made with a handle.Joe RoganThey made it that way.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganSo the. It wasn't manufactured like that onto the mason. Ah, you.Elon MuskThat would be fine if there was. They glued it on or something. But it was made that way.Joe RoganWhite trash chic. Oh, this is disgusting. Look at this. It is.Elon MuskYep.Joe RoganThis is terrible.Yeah. That's like fake breasts that are designed to be hard. Like fake breasts from the 60s.It's like if you really long for the ones with ripples. Here we go. Yeah. That's almost what that is.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganWhat are you gonna do, man? There's nothing. You know something you do stop certain terrible ideas from propagating.Elon MuskYeah.Anyway, I don't want to sound like things are too dark because I think you kind of have to be optimistic about the future. There's no point in being pessimistic. It's just too negative. It doesn't help. It doesn't help. You know, I think you want to be. I mean, my theory is like, you'd rather be optimistic. I think I'd rather be optimistic and wrong than pessimistic and right.Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskAt least err on that side.Joe RoganRight. Yeah.Elon MuskBecause if you're pessimistic, you're just going to be as miserable.Joe RoganYeah, yeah. Nobody wants to be around you anyway. If it's the end of the world, you're like, I fucking told you, bro.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganThe world ending. Yeah. It is what it is.Elon MuskI mean, enjoy the journey.Joe RoganRight. If you really want to get morose. I mean, it is what it is for all of us anyway. We're all gonna go unless some something changes.Elon MuskYeah. I mean, ultimately, you know, even if we just sort of existed as humans forever, we'd be. We'd still. Eventually. That'd be like the heat death of the universe.Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskA zillion years from now. Right.Joe RoganEven if we get it past the sun, if we figure out a way past the sun running out of juice,Elon Muskeventually it's going to end. It's just a question of when. Right. So it really is all about theJoe Roganjourney or transcendence from whatever we are now into something that doesn't worry about death.Elon MuskThe universe as we know it will dissipate into a fine mist of cold nothingness eventually.Joe RoganAnd then someone's going to bottle it and put a fragrance to it, sell it to French people in another dimension.Elon MuskIt's just a very long time. So I think it's really just about how can we make it last longer.Joe RoganAre you a proponent of the multi universes theory? Do you believe that there are many, many universes and that even if this one fades out, that there's other ones that are starting fresh right now and there's an infinite number of them and they're just constantly in this never ending cycle of birth and death?Elon MuskI think most likely this is just about probability. There are many, many simulations. These simulations are, we might as well call them reality, or you could call them multiverse.Joe RoganThese simulations you believe are created like someone has manufactured.Elon MuskThey're running on a substrate.So that substrate is probably boring.Joe RoganBoring? How so?Elon MuskWell, when we create a simulation like a game or a movie, it's a distillation of what's interesting about life. You know, like it takes a year to shoot an action movie and then that's all distilled down into two or three hours.So let me tell you, if you see an action movie being filmed, it's boring. Super boring. Takes, there's like lots of takes. Everything's in a green screen. Looks pretty goofy, doesn't look cool. But once you add the cgi, it's, and have great editing, it's amazing. So I think most likely if we're a simulation, it's really boring outside the simulation because why would you make a simulation that's boring?It makes simulation way more interesting than base reality.Joe RoganThat is if this right now is a simulation.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganAnd ultimately, inevitably, as long as we don't die or get hit by a meteor, we're going to create some sort of simulation. If we continue on the same technological path we're on right now.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganBut we might not be there yet. So it might not be a simulation here, but it most likely is. You feel other places,Elon Muskthis notion of place or where is flawed. Yes.Joe RoganFlawed perception like that.Elon MuskIf you have this sort of that vive, you know, that's made by Valve and it's really Valve that made it. HTC did the hardware, but it's really a Valve thing.Joe RoganMakers of Half Life.Elon MuskYes, Valve. Great company, Great company.When you're in that virtual reality, which is only going to get better.Where are you? Where are you really? You aren't anywhere. You're in the computer.Joe RoganWhat defines where you are exactly?Elon MuskIt's Your perception.Joe RoganIs it your perceptions or is it a scale that we have under your butt?Elon MuskYou're right here.Joe RoganI've measured you. You're the same weight as you were when you left.Meanwhile, your experience.Elon MuskWhy do you think you're where you are right now? You might not be.Joe RoganI'll spark up a joint if you keep talking. Your manager's gonna come in here. We might have to lock the door right now.Elon MuskYou think you're in a studio in la?Joe RoganThat's what I heard.Elon MuskYou might be in a computer.Joe RoganOh, listen, man, I think about this all the time.Yeah. I mean, it's unquestionable that one day that'll be the case. As long as we keep going, as long as nothing interrupts us. And if we start from scratch and, you know, we're single celled organisms all over again and then millions and millions of years later, we become the next thing, that is us. With creativity and the ability to change its environment.It's going to keep monkeying with things until it figures out a way to change reality, to change. I mean, almost like punch a hole through what is this thing into what, what it wants it to be, and create new things, and then those new things will intersect with other people's new things. And then it'll be this ultimate pathway of infinite ideas and expression all through technology.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganAnd then we're wonder, we're going to wonder like, why are we here? What are we doing?Elon MuskLet's find out.Well, I think we should take the actions, the set of actions that are most likely to make the future better.Joe RoganYes. Right. Yeah, Right, right.Elon MuskAnd then reevaluate those actions to make sure that it's true.Joe RoganWell, I think there's a movement to that. I mean, in terms of like a social movement. I think some of it's misguided and some of it's exaggerated and there's a lot of. A lot of people that are fighting for their side out there. But it seems like the general trend of, like, social awareness seems to be much more heightened now than has ever been in any other time in history because of our ability to express ourselves instantaneously to each other through Facebook or Twitter or what have you.And that the trend is to abandon preconceived notions, abandoned prejudice, abandoned discrimination, and promote kindness and happiness as much as possible. Looking at this knife, somebody gave it to me. Sorry.Elon MuskYeah. What is this?Joe RoganWhat the fuck did you do? My friend Donnie, he brought this with him and it just stayed here. I have a real samurai sword, if you Want to play with that? I know you're into weapons. That's from the 1500s. Samurai sword at the end of the table.Elon MuskYeah, that's cool.Joe RoganI'll grab it. Hold on.Yeah, that's a legit samurai sword from an actual samurai from the 1500s. If you pull out that blade. That blade was made the old way, where a master craftsman folded that metal and hammered it down over and over again over a long period of time and honed that blade into what it is now. What's crazy is that more than 500 years later, that thing is still pristine.I mean, whoever took care of that and passed it down to the next person who took care of it and. And, you know, until it got to the podcast room. It's pretty fucking crazy.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganOne day, someone's gonna be looking at a Tesla like that. Dude, these fucking back doors, they pop up sideways like a Lamborghini.Elon MuskYou should see what the Tesla can do. You didn't. You should. I'll show you afterwards.Joe RoganWell, I've driven one. I love them.Elon MuskYeah, but most people don't know whatJoe Roganit can do in terms of, like, ludicrous mode. In terms of, like, driving super fast and irresponsibly on public roads. Is that what you're saying?Elon MuskWell, any car can do that.Joe RoganYeah. What can it do that I need to know about?Elon MuskI mean, the Model X can do this, like, ballet thing to the Trans Siberian Orchestra. It's pretty cool.Joe RoganWhere it dances.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganLegitimately. Like, it moves around.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganWhy would you program that into a car?Elon MuskSeemed like fun.Joe RoganThat's what I get about you. That's what's weird. Like, when you showed up here, you were all smiles, and you pull out a fucking blowtorch. And not a blowtorch, but I'm like, look at this, dude.Elon MuskA flamethrower.Joe RoganNot a flamethrower.Elon MuskI want to be clear. It's definitely not a flamethrower.Joe RoganYou're having fun. Like, this is, like this thing when, you know, you program a car to do a ballet dance. You're having fun. How do you have the time to do that? I don't understand why you're digging holes under the earth and sending rockets into space and powering people in Australia. Like, how the fuck do you have time to make the car dance ballet?Elon MuskWell, I mean, in that case, there were some engineers at Tesla that said, you know, what if we make this car dance and play music? I was like, that sounds great.Please do it. Let's try to get it done in time. For Christmas. We did.Joe RoganIs there a concern about someone just losing their mind and making it do that on the highway?Elon MuskNo, it won't do that.Joe RoganWhat if it's in bumper to bumper traffic?Elon MuskNope.Joe RoganNo, won't do it.Elon MuskNope. Actually, you have to. It's an Easter egg.Joe RoganOh, it's an Easter egg.Elon MuskYeah. That's why people don't know about it. Including people have the car. Well, it's like it could do lots of things. Lots of things.Joe RoganOnce Reddit gets a hold of it, everyone's gonna.Elon MuskOh, you just have. It's everyone. If you search for it on the Internet, you will find out. But people don't know that they should even search for it.Joe RoganOh, well, they do now.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganYes.Elon MuskThere's so many things about the Model X and the Model S and the Model 3 that people don't know about. We should probably do a video or something and explain it because I have close friends of mine and I say, do you know the car can do this? And they're like, nope.Joe RoganDo you want to do a video of that or do you like the fact that some people don't know?Elon MuskNo, I think it's probably not. We should tell people.Joe RoganYeah, probably.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganThat would help your product. I mean, it's not like you don't sell enough of them. You sell almost too many of them. Right.Elon MuskBe. I mean, I think a Tesla is the most fun thing you could possibly buy ever.That's what it's meant to be. Well, our goal is to make it's. It's not exactly a car. It's actually a thing to maximize enjoyment, make its maximum fun.Joe RoganOkay. Electronic, like big screen laptop. Ridiculous speed, handling, all that stuff.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganDo you, you have.Elon MuskAnd we're gonna put video games in it.Joe RoganYou are?Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganIs that wise?Elon MuskWell, you won't be able to drive while you're playing the video game, but we're like, for example, we're just putting the Atari emulator ROM emulator in it so you'll be able to play Missile Command and Lunar Lander and a bunch of other things.Joe RoganYeah, that sounds cool.Elon MuskIt's pretty fun.Joe RoganI like that.Elon MuskYeah. And we improved the interface of Missile Command because it was too hard with the old trackball. So this is a touchscreen version of Missile Command. So you have a chance.Joe RoganDo you, you have an old car, don't you? Don't you have like an old Jaguar?Elon MuskYeah. How'd you know that? That's. Most people don't know. I have a 61 Series 1E type Jaguar.Joe RoganI love cars.Elon MuskIt's great.Joe RoganYeah, I love old cars.That's one of the.Elon MuskYeah. The only two, only two gasoline cars I have are that and an old, like a Ford Model T that a friend of mine gave me. That's my only two gasoline cars.Joe RoganIs the Ford Model T, all stock.Elon MuskWell.Joe RoganOh, there's your car.Elon MuskI have the convertible.Joe RoganThat is a gorgeous car. God, that's a good looking car.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganIs that yours?Elon MuskThat is. It's not mine. It's extremely close to mine, but I don't have a French license plate of mine.Joe RoganOh, it's a beautiful car. They nailed that.Elon MuskThat's mine looks like that.Joe RoganGod, they nailed that.Elon MuskThat's what mine looks like. Maybe that is mine.Joe RoganThere's certain iconic shapes.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganAnd there's. There's something about those cars too. They're not as capable, not nearly as capable as like a Tesla, but there's something really satisfying about the mechanical aspect of like feeling the steering and the grinding of the gears and the shifting.There's something about those that's extremely satisfying, even though they're not that competent. Like, I have a 1993 Porsche 964. It's like a lightweight. It's not in the RS America. It's not very fast. It's not like in comparison to a Tesla or anything like that. But the thing about it is, like, it's mechanical feel.Everything's like.It's like. It gives you this weird thrill. Like you're on this clinky ride and there's all this feedback. There's something to that.Elon MuskYeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah. My E type is like basically no electronics.Joe RoganYeah.So you like that, but you also like electronics.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganLike your Tesla soup. It's like the far end of electronics.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganDrives itself.Elon MuskIt's driving itself better every day.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskIt's like we're about to release the software that will enable you to just turn it on. And it'll drive from highway on ramp to highway exit, do lane changes to overtake other cars to go from one interchange to the next. If you get on, say the 405 and get on, get off 300 miles later and go through several highway interchanges and just overtake other cars and hook into the nav system and then.Joe RoganAnd you're just meditating home cars, just traveling.Elon MuskIt's kind of eerie. It's kind of eerie.Joe RoganWhat did you think when you saw that video? That dude falling asleep behind the wheel? I'm sure you've seen it. The one in San Francisco. He's like, right outside of San Jose. Dude's out cold like this. And the car's in bumper to bumper traffic moving along. Yeah, you've seen it, right?Elon MuskYeah, yeah.Joe RoganWe changed the software.Elon MuskWe changed the software. That's I think an old video. We changed software where if you don't touch the wheel, it will gradually slow down and put the emergency lights on. Wake you up.Joe RoganOh, that's hilarious. Yeah, that's hilarious.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganCan you choose what voice wakes you up?Elon MuskWell, it's sort of more of a. It sort of honks.Joe RoganOh, it honks.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganThis should be like, wake up, fuckface. You're endangering your fellow humans.Elon MuskWe could, we could gently wake you up with a sultry voice.Joe RoganAh, that would be good. Like something with a southern accent. Hey, wake up.Elon MuskWake up, sunshine.Joe RoganHey, sweetie.Elon MuskExactly.Joe RoganWhy don't you wake up?Elon MuskYou like pick. You could pick your.Joe RoganRight, Like Siri.Elon MuskPick what you want.Joe RoganYeah, I choose the Australian girl for Siri.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganI like her voice.Elon MuskDo you want it seductive?Joe RoganI like Australian.Elon MuskWhat flavor of. Do you want her to be angry? Could be anything.Joe RoganDo you want those Australian prison lady jeans? Now, when you program something like that in, is this in response to a concern or is it your own? Do you look at it and go, hey, they shouldn't just be able to fall asleep. Wake them up.Elon MuskYeah, yeah. It's like, you know, we're like, well, you know, people falling asleep. We've got to do something about that.Joe RoganRight? But when you first released it, you didn't consider it. Right. You're just like, well, no one's going to just sleep.Elon MuskPeople fall asleep in cars all the time.Joe RoganAll the time.Elon MuskAnd crash.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskAt least our car doesn't crash. That's better. It's better not to crash. Imagine if that guy had fallen asleep in a gasoline car. They do it all the time.Joe RoganFor sure. Yeah.Elon MuskAnd they were crashing somebody.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskIn fact, the thing that really, you know, got me to. It's like, man, we better get autopilot going. Get it out. There was a guy was in an early Tesla driving down the highway and he fell asleep and he ran over a cyclist and killed him. And cyclist was like, man, if we had autopilot wouldn't have run out of. He might have fallen asleep, but at least he wouldn't have run over that cyclist.Joe RoganSo how did you implement it? Like, did you just use cameras programmed with the system so that if it sees images, it slows down? And how much time do you give? Is the person who's in control of it allowed to program how fast it goes.Elon MuskYes. Yeah. You can program it to be more or less, more conservative, like more aggressive driver.And you can say what speed you want it to. What. What speed is.Joe RoganOkay, I know you have ludicrous mode. Do you have douchebag mode?Well, it just cuts people off.Elon MuskWell, for, for lane changes, it's tricky because if you're in like la, like, unless you're pretty aggressive.Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskIt's pretty. It's hard to change lanes sometimes.Joe RoganIt's hard to be Satnam. It's hard to be Namaste out here in la.Elon MuskYeah, you get.Joe RoganIf you want to hit that Santa Monica Boulevard off ramp, I mean, youElon Muskgot to be a little pushy.Joe RoganYou got to be a little pushy.Elon MuskYeah, Especially the freeway.Joe RoganAngry. Yeah, a little angry. They don't want you in. They speed up sometimes.Elon MuskYou know, I think people like, overall are pretty nice on the highway, even in la, but sometimes they're not.Joe RoganDo you think the neural link will help that clink? Probably everybody be locked in together, this hive mind.Elon MuskTunnels will help it. We're have traffic.Joe RoganThat'll help a lot.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganHow many of those can you put in there?Elon MuskThat's the thing about tunnels is you can go 3D, so you can go many levels.Joe RoganRight. So until you hit hell, yeah.Elon MuskBut you could go. You could have a hundred levels of tunnel, no problems.Joe RoganJesus Christ. I don't want to be on 99. Not to be on 99th. Negative, 99 floors.Elon MuskWho. This is one of the fundamental things people don't appreciate about tunnels, is that it's not like roads. The fundamental issue with roads is that you have a 2D transport system and a 3D living and workspace environment. So you got all these tall buildings or concentrated work environments, and then you want to go into this 2D transport system.Hugely inefficient, pretty low density because cars are spaced out pretty far.And so that obviously is not going to work. You're going to have traffic, guaranteed. But if you can go 3D on your transport system, then you can solve all traffic. You can either go 3D up with a flying car or you can go 3D down with tunnels. You can have as many tunnel levels as you want. You can arbitrarily relieve any amount of traffic.You can go further down with tunnels than you can go up with buildings. You're 10,000ft down if you want.I wouldn't recommend it, but.Joe RoganWhat was that movie with what's His Face? Bradley Coote. Not Bradley Cooper. Christian. No. What the fuck's his name? Who is Batman? Christian Bale. Where he. They fought dragons. Him and Matthew McConaughey went down deep into the earth. How high? How deep can you go? Yeah, it was.Elon MuskIt was Batman. Four dragons.Joe RoganNo, it wasn't Batman, but it's Christian Bale.Elon MuskReign of Fire.Joe RoganReign of Fire.Elon MuskOkay.Joe RoganEver saw that?Elon MuskNo.Joe RoganTerrible, terrible movie, but good.Elon MuskI wouldn't recommend drilling super far down.Joe RoganYeah, but you get hot, right?Elon MuskMolten. We're.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskEarth is a giant ball of lava with a thin crust on the top, which we think of as, like, the surface, this thin crust, and it's mostly just a big ball of lava.That's Earth. But 10,000ft is not a big deal.Joe RoganHave you given any consideration whatsoever to the flat earth movement?Elon MuskHa ha.I think that's a troll situation.Joe RoganOh, it's not. No, it's not. You would like to think that because you're super genius, but I, as a normal, normal person, I know there's people way dumber than me, and they really, really believe. They watch YouTube videos which go on uninterrupted and spew out a bunch of fucking fake facts very eloquently and articulately.And they really believe, these people. Really believe.Elon MuskI mean, if it works for them, sure, fine.Joe RoganIt's weird, though, right, that in this age where, you know, there's ludicrous mode in your car, goes 1.9 seconds, 0 to 62.2. 2.2. Which one's 1.9? The Roadster.Elon MuskThe next generation Roadster.Joe RoganOkay.Elon MuskStandard edition.Joe RoganYeah. I'm on top of this shit.Elon MuskThat's the. That's what that.Joe RoganStandard edition.Elon MuskYeah. So it's about the performance package.Joe RoganWhat? Performance package? Yes. What the fuck do you need?Elon MuskWe'll put rocket thrusters on it.Joe RoganFor real?Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganWhat are they going to burn?Elon MuskNothing. Ultra high pressure compressed air.Joe RoganWhoa.Elon MuskJust cold gas thrusters.Joe RoganDid you have to have air tanks or are they sucking the air out of. Okay, yeah.Elon MuskIt's an electric pump.Joe RoganWhoa.Elon MuskPump it up to, like 10,000 psi.Joe RoganAnd how fast are we talking? Zero to 60.Elon MuskHow fast you want to go?Joe RoganI want to go. We could make it just fly. I want to go back in time.Elon MuskMake it fly.Joe RoganYou make it fly?Elon MuskSure.Joe RoganDo you anticipate that as being. I mean, you were talking about the tunnels and then flying cars. Do you really think that's going to be real?Elon MuskToo noisy and there's too much airflow. So the fundamental issue with flying cars. I Mean, if you get like one of those like toy drones, think of how much, how loud those are and how much air that they, how much air they blow. Now imagine if that's like a thousand times heavier. This is not going to be make your neighbors happy.Your neighbors are not going to be happy. If you land a flying car inJoe Roganyour backyard, it'll be very helicopter likeElon Muskor on your roof. They're just really going to be like, what the hell? That was annoying. You can't even look. If you want a flying car, just put some wheels on a helicopter.Joe RoganIs there a way around that? Like, what if they figure out some sort of magnetic technology like all those Bob Lazar type characters were thinking. That was a part of the UFO technology they were doing at Area 51, remember? Didn't they have some, some thoughts about magnetics?Elon MuskNope.Joe RoganNo. Bullshit.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganReally?Elon MuskYeah. There's a fundamental momentum exchange with the air. So you must, you must accelerate. There's, there's like, there's, there's a certain. You have a mass and you have gravity. Gravitational acceleration and mass. Mass times your mass times gravity must equal the mass of airflow times the acceleration of that airflow to have a neutral force.Joe RoganSo it's impossible to go down andElon Muskthen you won't move. But if MG is greater than ma, you will go down. And if MA is greater than mg, you will go up. That's how it works.Joe RoganThere's just no way around that.Elon MuskThere is definitely no way around it.Joe RoganThere's no way to create some sort of a magnetic something or another that allows you to.Elon MuskTechnically, yes, you, you could have a strong enough magnet, but that magnet would be so strong that you would create a lot of trouble.Joe RoganWould you suck cars up into your car? Just pick up?Elon MuskI mean, you'd have to repel off of either material on the ground or in a really nutty situation off of Earth's gravitational field and somehow make that incredibly light. But that magnet would cause so much destruction. You'd be better off with a helicopter.Joe RoganSo if there was some sort of magnet road, like you have two magnets and they repel each other. If you had some sort of a magnet road that was below you and you could travel on that magnet road, that would work?Elon MuskHahaha.Yes. Yes, you can have a magnet road.Joe RoganA magnet road? Is that too ridiculous?Elon MuskNo, it's, it would work. You could do that. I would not recommend it.Joe RoganThere's a lot of things I don't recommend.Elon MuskI would super not recommend that. Not good. Not wise. I think no, no, that. No, definitely not. Definitely not. That would cause a lot of trouble.Joe RoganSo you've put some time and consideration into this other than, you know, instead of, like, my foolishly rendered thoughts. So you think that tunnels are the way to do it?Elon MuskOh, it'll work for sure.Joe RoganThat'll work.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganAnd your. These. These tunnels that you're building right now, these are basically just like test versions of this ultimate idea that you have.Elon MuskYou know, it's just a hole in the ground, Right.Joe RoganWe played videos of it where you're going to drop that hole in the ground. There's a sled on it, and the sled goes very fast, like 100 miles an hour plus.Elon MuskYeah, you can go real fast, you know, as fast as you want. And then if you want to go long distances, you can just draw the air out of the tunnel, make sure it's real straight.Joe RoganDraw the air out of the tunnel. Yeah.Elon MuskSo vacuum tunnel. Because the. Then. And then, depending on how fast you want to go, you can use wheels or you could use air bearings, depending upon the ambient pressure in the tunnel. Or you could mag. Levit if you want to go super fast.Joe RoganSo magnet road.Elon MuskYes, but underground. Magnet roads.Joe RoganUnderground magnet.Elon MuskOtherwise you're gonna really create a lot of trouble with. Because there's metal things. Ah.Joe RoganSo magnet road is the way to go. Just underground.Elon MuskIf you want to go really fast underground, you would be in. You would be maglev in a vacuum tunnel.Joe RoganMag in a vacuum tunnel.Elon MuskMagnetic levitation in a vacuum tunnel.Joe RoganFun with rocket launchers.Elon MuskNo, I would not recommend putting any exhaust gas in the tunnel.Joe RoganOh, okay. I see what you're saying. Because then you gotta pump it out, right? You have to pump it out. And you probably have a limited amount of air in the first place. Like, how much can you breathe? Do you have to pump oxygen into these cubicles?Elon MuskNow you have a pressurized pod. It'd be like a little tiny underground spaceship. Basically like an airplane.Joe RoganBecause you have air in the airplane, it's not getting new air in it is.Elon MuskIt is, yes.Joe RoganThey have, like a little hole.Elon MuskYeah, they have a pump. Really? Yeah.Joe RoganIt gets it from the outside.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganWow. I didn't know.Elon MuskAnd it's like. It's the errors. Airplanes have it. Have it easy because, like, essentially you can. They're pretty leaky, but. Jesus. Yeah, but as long as the. As long as the air pump is working at a decent speed, they have backup pumps. So they have like, you know, three pumps or four pumps or something. And then there's like it exhausts through the outflow valve and through whatever seals are not sealing quite right.Usually the door doesn't seal quite right on a plane, so there's a bit of leakage around the door, but the pumps exceed the outflow rate and then that sets the pressure in the cabin.Joe RoganNow, have you ever looked at planes and gone, I could fix this, I just don't have the time.Elon MuskI have a design for a plane.Joe RoganYou do?Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganA better design.Elon MuskI mean, probably. I think it is, yeah.Joe RoganWho have you talked to about this?Elon MuskAnd I've talked to friends.Joe RoganFriends.Elon MuskFriends.Joe RoganAnd I'm your friend.Elon MuskGirlfriends.Joe RoganYou can tell me.What do you got? What's going on?Elon MuskWell, I mean, the exciting thing to do would be some sort of electric vertical takeoff and landing, supersonic jet of some kind.Joe RoganVertical takeoff and landing mean no need for a Runway. Just shoot up straight in the air. And then how would you do that?They do that on some military aircraft, correct?Elon MuskYes. The trick is that you have to transition to level flight and then you.The thing that you would use for vertical takeoff and landing is not suitable for high speed flight.Joe RoganSo you have two different systems. I've thought about this quite a lot.Elon MuskI've thought about this quite a lot.The interesting thing about an electric plane is that you want to go as high as possible, but you need a certain energy density in the battery pack because you have to overcome gravitational potential energy. Once you've overcome gravitational potential energy and you're at a high altitude, the energy you use in crews is very low.And then you can recapture a large part of the gravitational potential energy on the way down. So you really don't need any kind of reserve fuel, if you will, because you have the energy of height, gravitational potential energy. This is a lot of energy. So once you can get high, the way to think about a plane is it's a force balance.So the force balance, so a plane that is not accelerating is a neutral force balance. You have the force of gravity, you have the lift force of the wings. Then you've got the force of the whatever thrusting device, the propeller or turbine or whatever it is, and you've got the resistance force of the air. Now the higher you go, the lower the air resistance is.Air density drops exponentially, but drag increases with the square. An exponential beats a square. The higher you go, the faster you will go for the same amount of energy.And at a certain altitude you can go supersonic with less energy per mile, quite a lot less energy per mile than an aircraft at 35,000ft, because it's just a force balance.Joe RoganI'm too stupid for this conversation.Elon MuskIt makes sense, though.Joe RoganNo, I'm sure it does. Now, when you think about this new idea of designing, when you have this idea about improving planes, are you going to bring this to somebody? Are you just Chuck?Elon MuskWell, I have a lot on my plate.Joe RoganRight, that's what I'm saying.I don't know how you do what you do now, but if you keep coming up with these. But it's got to be hard to pawn these off on someone else either. Hey, go do a good job with this vertical takeoff and landing system that I want to implement to regular planes.Elon MuskElectric airplane isn't necessary right now. Electric cars are important. Solar energy is important. Stationary storage of energy is important. These things are much more important than creating electric supersonic vtol. Also, the planes, naturally, you really want that gravitational energy density for an aircraft. And this is improving over time.So, you know, it's important that we accelerate the transition to sustainable energy. That's why electric cars, it matters whether electric cars happen sooner or later. You know, we're really playing a crazy game here with the atmosphere and the oceans. We're taking vast amounts of carbon from deep underground and putting this, putting this in the atmosphere.This is crazy. We should not do this. It's very dangerous.So we should accelerate the transition to sustainable energy.I mean, the bizarre thing is that obviously we're going to run out of oil in the long term.There's only so much oil we can, we can mine and burn. It's total logical. We must have a sustainable energy transport and energy infrastructure in the long term. So we know that's the end point. We know that. So why run this crazy experiment where we take trillions of tons of carbon from underground and put it in the atmosphere and oceans?This is an insane experiment. It's the dumbest experiment in human history.Why are we doing this? It's crazy.Joe RoganDo you think this is a product of momentum? That we started off doing this when it was just a few engines, a few hundred million gallons of fuel over the whole world? Not that big of a deal. And then slowly but surely over a century, it got out of control and now it, it, it's not just our fuel, but it's also, I mean, fossil fuels are involved in so many different electronics, so many different items that people buy.It's just this constant desire for fossil fuels, constant need for oil.Without consideration of the sustainability.Elon MuskThe things like oil, oil, coal, gas. It's the easy money. It's Easy money.Joe RoganSo have you heard about clean coal? The President's been tweeting about it. It's got to be real clean coal, all caps. Did you see he used all caps? Clean coal?Well,Elon Muskyou know, it's very difficult to put that CO2 back in the ground. It doesn't like being in solid form.Joe RoganIt takes a lot of energy like that, like some sort of a filter. Giant building sized filter sucks carbon out of the atmosphere.Elon MuskNo, no it doesn't. Not possible.Joe RoganNo, no, no.Elon MuskDefinitely not fucked. No, we're not fucked.I mean this is a quite a complex question, right?You know, we're really just. When the more carbon we take out of the ground and add to the atmosphere and a lot of it gets permeated into the oceans, the more dangerous it is. Like I don't think right now, I think we're okay right now. We can probably even add some more. But the momentum towards sustainable energy is too slow.Like there's a vast base of industry, vast transportation system. Like there's two and a half billion cars and trucks in the world. So. And the new car and truck production, if it was 100% electric, that's only about 100 million per year. So it would take, if you could snap your fingers and instantly turn all cars and trucks electric, it would still take 25 years to change the transport base to electric.Makes sense because how long does a car truck last before it goes into the junkyard and gets crushed? About 20 to 25 years.Joe RoganIs there a way to accelerate that process like some sort of subsidies or some encouragement from the government financially?Elon MuskWell, the thing that is going on right now is that there is an inherent subsidy in any oil burning device, any power plant or car is fundamentally consuming the carbon capacity of the oceans and atmosphere. Or just say atmosphere for short. So like you can say like, okay, there's a certain probability of something bad happening past a certain carbon concentration in the atmosphere.And so there's some uncertain number where if we put too much carbon in the atmosphere, things overheat, oceans warm up, ice caps melt, ocean real estate becomes a lot less valuable, things underwater, but it's not clear what that number is. But it's definitely. Scientists would all. It's really quite. The scientific consensus is overwhelming.Overwhelming. I mean, I don't know any serious scientists. Actually zero, literally zero, who don't think that we have quite a serious climate risk that we're facing. And so there's fundamentally a subsidy occurring with every fossil fuel burning thing, power plants, aircraft, car, frankly even rockets. I mean, rockets use a, you know, they burn fuel, but there's just, you know, with rockets there's just no other way to get to orbit, unfortunately.So it's the only way. But with cars, there's definitely a better way with electric cars and to generate the energy, do so with photovoltaics because we've got a giant thermonuclear reactor in the sky called the sun. It's great, sort of shows up every day, very reliable. So if you can generate energy from solar panels stored with batteries, you can have energy 24 hours a day.And then you can, you know, can send it to the poles or near to the north with high voltage lines. Also, the northern parts of the world tend to have a lot of hydropower as well.But anyway, all fossil fuel powered things have an inherent subsidy, which is their consumption of the carbon capacity of the atmosphere and oceans.So people tend to think like, why should electric vehicles have a subsidy? But they're not taking into account that all fossil fuel burning vehicles fundamentally are subsidized by the cost, the environmental cost to Earth.But nobody's paying for it. We are going to pay for it. Obviously in the future we will pay for it. It's just not paid for now.Joe RoganAnd what is the bottleneck in regards to electric cars and trucks and things like that? Is it battery capacity?Elon MuskYeah, I've got to scale up production, got to make the car compelling, make it better than gasoline or diesel cars,Joe Roganmake it more efficient in terms of like the distance it could travel.Elon MuskYeah, you got to be able to go far enough, recharge fast.Joe RoganAnd your roadster, you're anticipating 600 miles, is that correct?Elon MuskYeah, yeah. 600 miles.Joe RoganIs that right now? Like, have you driven one 600 miles now?Elon MuskNo, we could totally make one right now. That would do 600 miles. But the thing is, it's too expensive. So like the car's.Joe RoganHow much more so.Elon MuskWell, you know, just have a 200 kilowatt hour battery pack and you can go 600 miles. Right.Joe RoganVersus what do you have now?Elon Musk330 mile range.Joe RoganWhat is that in terms of kilowatts?Elon MuskWell, that would be for Model S, 100 kilowatt hour pack. We'll do about 330 miles, maybe 335. But some people have hyper miled it to 500 miles.Joe RoganHyper miled it?Elon MuskWhat does that. Yeah, I just like go on 45Joe Roganmiles an hour or something.Elon MuskYeah, they're like 30 miles an hour on level ground with you pump the tires up really well and Go on a smooth surface and you can go for a long time, but you definitely comfortably do 300 miles.Joe RoganIs there any.Elon MuskThis is fine for most people. Usually 200 or 250 miles is fine. 300 miles is. You don't even think about it really.Joe RoganIs there any possibility that you could use solar power? That solar powered one day, especially in Los Angeles. I mean, as you said about that giant nuclear reactor a million times bigger than Earth, just floating in the sky. Is it possible that one day you'll be able to just power all these cars just on solar power? I mean, we don't ever have cloudy days.If we do, there's three of them.Elon MuskWell, the surface area of a car is.Without making the car like really blocky or having some like a G wagon. Yeah, like. And just like having a lot of surfs area where like maybe like solar panels fold out or something.Joe RoganLike your E class. That's what we needed.Elon MuskThe E Type.Joe RoganYeah, that. The E. Jaguar E Type with a giant long hood. That could be a giant solar panel.Elon MuskWell, at the beginning of Tesla, I did want to have this like unfolding solar panel thing. They'd press a button and it would just like unfold these solar panels and like charge. Recharge your car in the parking lot.Yeah, we could do that. But I think it's probably better to just put that on your roof.Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskAnd then it's going to just be facing the sun all the time. Because like otherwise your car could be in the shade. You know, it could be in the shade. It could be in a garage or something like that. Yeah.Joe RoganDidn't a Fisker have that on the roof? The Fisker Karma new generation for. I believe it was only for the. The radio. Is that correct?Elon MuskYeah, I mean, I think it could like recharge like two miles a day or something.Joe RoganDid you laugh when they started blowing up? When they got hit with water, do you remember what happened?Elon MuskThey got what?Joe RoganYeah, when they had a dealership. Oh, yeah, the Fisker Karmas were parked.Elon MuskWas that like that with a flood in Jersey?Joe RoganYes, yes. When the hurricane came in, they got overwhelmed with water and they all started exploding. This fucking great video of it. Did you watch the video?Elon MuskI didn't watch the video, but I did see a picture of the ass lubed up.Joe RoganWatch that video. Laugh my ass off. They all blow up. They got wet and they blew up. That's not good.Elon MuskYeah, we made out battery waterproof, so that doesn't happen.Joe RoganSmart.Elon MuskActually move. Yeah. There was a guy in Kazakhstan that I think it was Kazakhstan that he. He just boated through a tunnel under. Underwater tunnel, like a flooded tunnel, and just turn the wheels to steer and press the accelerator and it just floated through the tunnel and he.Joe RoganWow.Elon MuskSteered around the other cars.Joe RoganYou're like, that's amazing.Elon MuskIt's on the Internet.Joe RoganWhat happens if your car gets a little sideways? Like, if you're driving in snow? Like, what if you're driving. If your autopilot is on and you're in, like, Denver and it snows out and your car gets a little sideways, does it correct itself?Elon MuskOh, yeah. It's got great traction control.Joe RoganBut does it know how to, like, correct? Do you know how, like.Elon MuskOh, yeah.Joe RoganYour ass end kicks out. You know how to counter steer?Elon MuskOh, yeah. No, it's really good.Joe RoganIt knows how to do it.Elon MuskYeah. Whoa. It's pretty crazy.Joe RoganThat's pretty crazy.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganSo, like, if you're going sideways, it knows how to correct itself.Elon MuskIt generally won't go sideways.Joe RoganIt won't?Elon MuskNo.Joe RoganWhy not?Elon MuskIt will correct itself before it goes sideways.Joe RoganEven in black eyes.Elon MuskYeah. This video is where you could see the car. The traction control system is very good. It makes you feel like Superman. It's great. You, like, feel like you can, like. It will make you feel like this incredible driver.Joe RoganI believe it.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganNow, how do you program?Elon MuskWe do our testing on, like, an old ice lake in Sweden.Joe RoganOh, really? Yeah.Elon MuskAnd like, Norway and Canada and a few other places.Joe RoganPorsche does a lot of that, too.Elon MuskNew Zealand as well.Joe RoganThey do a lot of their. They do some of their driver training school on these frozen surfaces. So you're just. The car is going sideways whether you like it or not, and you have to learn how to slide into corners and how to adjust.Elon MuskWell, electric cars have really great traction control because the reaction time is so fast.Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskSo with a gasoline car, you've got a lot of latency. It takes a while for the engine to react. But for electric motors, incredibly precise. That's why you imagine if you had a printer or something, you wouldn't have a gasoline engine printer. That would be pretty weird. Or a surgical device. It's going to be an electric motor on the surgical device on the printer.Gasoline engine is going to be just chugging away. It's not going to have the reaction time. But to an electric motor, it's operating at the millisecond level, so it can turn on track, on and off traction within, like, inches of getting on the honest, like, let's say, drive a patch of ice. It'll turn traction off and then turn it on a couple inches right after the ice.Like if there's a little patch of ice. Because in the frame of the electric motor, you're moving incredibly slowly. You're like a snail. You're a snail. You're just moving so slowly because it can see at 1,000 frames a second.And so it's like, say, one Mississippi. It just thought about things a thousand times.Joe RoganSo it's realized that your wheels are not getting traction. It understands there's some slippery surface that you're driving on, and it makes adjustments in real time.Elon MuskYes. In milliseconds.Joe RoganThat would be so much safer than a regular car.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganIt is just that alone for loved ones. You'd want them to be driving your car. Yes, I'm on board.Elon MuskFuck motors, dude.Joe RoganFuck regular motors.Elon MuskThe S X and three have the lowest probability of injury of any cars ever tested by the US Government.Joe RoganWow.Elon MuskThis is.Yeah, but it's pretty funny. It's pretty crazy. Like, we, you know, people still sue us. Like, they'll have, like, some accident at 60 miles an hour where they'd, like, twisted an ankle and they sue. Like, they'll be dead in another car. They still sue us.Joe RoganBut that's to be expected.Elon MuskIt is to be expected.Joe RoganDo you take that into account with, like, the same sort of fatalistic, you know, undertones, just sort of just go, ah, you gotta just let it go. This is what people do.Elon MuskTell you, I've got what it is, quite a lot of respect for the justice system. Judges are very smart and they see they like. I haven't so far. I found judges to be very good at justice because I like. Like what? Like. And juries are good too. Like, they're actually quite good. You know, people, you know, you read about, like, occasional errors in the justice system.Let me tell you, most of the time, they're very good. And like the, you know, the guy mentioned that who fell asleep in the car and he. He rode over a cyclist and, you know, and. And that was what encouraged me to get autopilot out as soon as possible. That guy sued us.Joe RoganHe sued you for falling asleep?Elon MuskYes. I'm not kidding. He blamed it on the new car smell.Joe RoganWhat?Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganHe blamed him falling asleep on your new car smell. There's someone who's a lawyer.Elon MuskThis is a real thing that happened somewhere.Joe RoganThere's a lawyer that thought that through in front of his laptop before he wrote that up.Elon MuskYes. He got a lawyer and he sued us. And the judge was like, You. This is crazy. Stop bothering me.Joe RoganNo, thank God. Yes, thank God. Thank God there's a judge out there with a brain.Elon MuskTell you, judges are. Judges are very good.Joe RoganSome of them. What about that judge? Boys up the river in Pennsylvania who was selling those kids out. You know about that story? Judge was selling young boys to prisons. He was like, literally. Yeah, literally under bribes for. He was.Elon MuskWas this an elected judge or sometimes you have a judge that's like actually a politician.Joe RoganNo, he's an elected judge. This is a very famous story. Who. He's in jail right now, I think, for the rest of his life. And he put away. He would take like a young boy would do something like steal something from a store and he would put him in detention for, you know, five years, something ridiculously egregious. And they investigated his history and they found out that he was literally being paid off.Was it by private prisons? Is that what the. The deal was? There was some sort of. But anyway, this judge is two judges. Two judges. Kids for Cash scandals, what it's called 2008.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganCommon Pleas judges.Elon MuskSo I think they are elected.Joe RoganAnd who was paying them?Elon MuskOh,Joe Rogansomeone. It was proven to the point where they're in jail now that someone was paying them to put more asses in the seats in these private prisons. A million dollar payment to put them in the youth centers Builder. A million dollar payment.Elon MuskI do think it's this private prisons thing is creating a bad incentive, right? Yes, but I mean, that judge is in prison, thank God. Yes, but for people who think perhaps the justice system consists entirely of judges like that, I want to assure you this is not the case. The vast majority of judges are very good.Joe RoganI agree.Elon MuskAnd they care about justice and they could have made a lot more money if they wanted to be a trial lawyer. And instead they cared about justice and they made less money because they care about justice and that's why they're judges.Joe RoganI feel that same way about police officers. I feel like there's so many interactions with so many different people with police officers that the very few that stand out, that are horrific, we tend to look at that like this is evidence that police are all corrupt. And I think that's crazy.Elon MuskNo, most police are very honest.Joe RoganYes.Elon MuskAnd like the military, military personnel that I know are very honorable, ethical people, and much more honorable and ethical than the average person. That's my impression.Joe RoganThat is my impression as well.Elon MuskAnd that's not to suggest that we be complacent and assume everyone's honest and ethical and Obviously, if somebody is given a trusted place in society, such as being a police officer or a judge, and they are corrupt, then we must be extra vigilant against such situations and take action. But we should not think that this is somehow broadly descriptive of people in that profession.Joe RoganI couldn't agree more. I think there's also an issue with one of the things that happens with police officers, prosecutors, and anyone that's trying to convict someone or arrest someone is that it becomes a game. And in games, people want to win. And sometimes people cheat.Elon MuskYes, yes. I mean, if you're a prosecutor, you should not always want to win. There are times when you should, like, okay, I just should not want to win this case and then just pass on that case. Sometimes people want to win too much. That is true. I think also it becomes tough. If you're like a district attorney, you tend to sort of see a lot of criminals and then your view of the world can get negatively.Have a negative view of the world because you're just interacting with a lot of criminals. But actually, most of society does not consist of criminals. And I actually had this conversation at dinner several years ago with district attorney, and I was like, man, it must sometimes seem pretty, pretty dark because, you know, man, there's some terrible human beings out there.And he was like, yep. And he was like dealing with some case which consisted of a couple of old ladies that would run people over somehow for insurance money. It was rough. I was like, wow, that's pretty rough.It's like, hard to maintain faith in humanity if you're a district attorney. But, you know, it's only a few percent of society that are actually bad. And then if you go to the worst, say 0.1% of society or the worst, one in a thousand. One in a million. You know, like, how bad is the millionth worst person in the United States?Pretty damn bad. Like damn evil. Like the, the millionth. Like the millionth. Well, one in a million of evil is so evil, people cannot even conceive of it. But there's 330 million people in the United States, so that's 330 people out there somewhere.But by the same token, there's also 330 people who are incredible angels and unbelievably good human beings.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskOn the other side.Joe RoganBut because of our fear of danger, we tend to. Our thoughts tend to gravitate towards the worst case scenario.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganAnd we want to frame that. And it's one of the real problems with prejudice. Whether it's prejudice towards different minorities or prejudice towards police officers or anything. It's like we want to look at the worst case scenario and say, this is an example of what this is all about. And you see that even with people, how they frame genders, some men frame women like that.They get ripped off by a few women and they decide all women are evil. Some women get fucked over by a few men, all men are shit. And this is very toxic. And it's also. It's a very unbalanced way of viewing the world. And it's very emotionally based on. And it's based on your own experience, your own anecdotal experience.And it can be very influential to the people around you. And it's just. It's a dangerous way. It's a dangerous thought process and pattern to promote.Elon MuskIt is. It is a very dangerous thought pattern. I really think, you know, people should give other people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they're good until proven otherwise. And I think really, most people are actually pretty good people. Nobody's perfect.Joe RoganThey have to be. If you think the vast numbers of us that are just interacting with us, with each other constantly.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganWe have to be better than we think we are. Yeah. There's no other way.Elon MuskI mean, here are these weapons like. But how many times like, nobody's presumably tried to murder you and you're.Joe RoganNobody.Elon MuskYes. Nobody's like. But the swords right there.Joe RoganFake flamethrower here. It's not a flamethrower. Now we got a real problem. I'm gonna put it on that side, too. I'm gonna leave it for the guests.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganI'm like, look, man, if I say something that fucked up, it's right there.Elon MuskSo liven things up for sure.Guaranteed to make any party better.Joe RoganYeah. Well, that's. I mean, that's the armed civilization theory. Right. That an armed community is a safe and polite community.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganTexas, it's kind of true.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganI mean, people in Texas are super polite. Everybody's got a gun.Elon MuskYes.Don't make somebody angry. Don't know what's going to happen.Joe RoganYeah. It's not a good move.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganPiss people off when everybody can have a gun. Better off to just let that guy get in your lane.Elon MuskYeah. Yeah. You know, we got a big test site in central Texas near Waco.Joe RoganOh, beautiful.Elon MuskYeah. SpaceX in McGregor. It's about 15 minutes away from Waco.Joe RoganThat's close to where Ted Nugent lives. It is a Ted Nugent.Elon MuskOkay, cool.Yeah. There, you know, we have luck. Lots of Fire and loud explosions and things. And people that, they're cool with it.Joe RoganThey don't give a fuck out there.Elon MuskThey're very supportive.Joe RoganYeah, you can buy fireworks where, you know, your kids go to school.Elon MuskYeah, it's, you know, it's dangerous.Joe RoganYeah, but it's free. There's something about this that's very enticing because of that. It is dangerous. But it's also free, right? Yeah.Elon MuskYeah. I kind of like Texas, actually.Joe RoganWell, I prefer it over places that are more restrictive but more liberal. Because you could always be liberal. Like just because things are free and just because you have a certain amount of, you know, right wing type characters, it doesn't mean you have to be that way, you know? And honestly, there's a lot of those people that are pretty fucking open minded and let you do whatever you want to do as long as you don't bother them.Elon MuskYeah, exactly.Joe RoganThat's my hope right now. With the way we're able to communicate with each other today and how radically different it is than generations past, is that we all just. The dust settles and we all realize like, like what you were saying, that most people are good.Elon MuskMost people are good.Joe RoganThe vast majority, yes.Elon MuskI think you should give people the benefit of the doubt. For sure.Joe RoganI think you're right.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganYou know what could help that? Mushrooms.Elon MuskDon't you think they're delicious?Joe RoganYeah, right?Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganThey're good for you too.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganAll of them, all kinds of them.What do you see in terms of like, when you think about the future of your companies, what do you see as like bottlenecks? What's more.Elon MuskSure. Thank you.Joe RoganWhat do you see in terms of like bottlenecks of things that are, that are holding back innovation? Is it regulatory commissions and people that don't understand the technology that are influencing policy? Like what could potentially be holding you guys back right now?Is there anything that you would change?Elon MuskYeah, that's a good question.You know, I wish politicians were better at science. That would help a lot.Joe RoganThat's a problem.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganThere's no incentive for them to be good at science.Elon MuskThere isn't. Actually. They're pretty good at science in China, I have to say.Yeah. The mayor of Beijing is, I believe an environmental engineering degree and the deputy mayor is a physics degree. I met them and mayor says Shanghai is really smart.Joe RoganYou're up on technology. What do you think about this government policy of stopping use of Huawei phones? And there's something about the worry about spying. I mean, from what I understand from real tech People, they think it's horseshit.Oh, like phones?Elon MuskI don't know. I don't know.Joe RoganLike the government say, don't buy Huawei phones. Does that do? Are you up on that at all? No. Should we just abandon this idea?Elon MuskWell, I think, like, I guess if you're, if you're, if you have like top secret stuff, then you want to be pretty careful about what hardware you use. But, you know, like, most people do not have top secret stuff, right? And like, nobody really cares what porn you watch, you know? Or it's like nobody actually cares, you know?Joe RoganSo if they do, that's kind of on them.Elon MuskLike, national spy agencies do not care. Do not give a rat's ass what porn you watch. They do not care. So, like, what secrets does a national spy agency have to learn from the average citizen? Nothing.Joe RoganWell, that's the argument against the narrative and the argument by a lot of these tech people is that the real concern is that these companies like Huawei are innovating at a radical pace and they're trying to stop them from integrating into our culture and letting this. Right now, they're the number two cell phone manufacturer in the world.Samsung's number one. Huawei is number two. Apple is now number three. They surpassed Apple as number two. And the idea is that this is all taking place without them having any foothold whatsoever. In America, there are no, there's no carriers that have their phones. You have to buy their phones unlocked through some sort of a third party and then put.Elon MuskOkay.Joe RoganAnd the worry is, you know, that these are somehow or another controlled by the Chinese government. The communist Chinese government is going to distribute these phones. And I don't know if it's. The worry is economic influence, that they'll have too much power. I don't know what it is. Are you paying attention to any of this?Elon MuskNot really, no. I don't think we should worry too much about Huawei phones. Maybe our national security agencies shouldn't have Huawei phones. Maybe that's a question mark. But I think for the average citizen, it doesn't matter.I'm pretty sure the Chinese government does not care about the goings on of the average American citizen.Joe RoganIs there a time where you think that there will be no security, where it will be impossible to hold back information? That whatever bottleneck we'll let go, we're going to give in? That whatever bottleneck between privacy and ultimate innovation will have to be bridged in order for us to achieve the next level of technological proficiency that we're Just going to abandon it and there'll be no security, no privacy.Elon MuskDo people want privacy? Because they seem to put everything on the Internet.Joe RoganWell right now they're confused. But when you're talking about your neuralink and this, this idea that one day we are going to be able to share information. We're going to be some sort of a thing that symbiotically create. Symbiotically connected.Elon MuskI think we really need to worry about security in that situation.Joe RoganAnd when.Elon MuskSure. That's like a security we Paramount.Joe RoganSure.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganBut also what we will be is we'll be so much different Lark our concerns about money, about status, about. Well, all these things will seemingly go by the wayside. If we really become enlightened, if we really become artificially enlightened by some sort of an AI interface where we have this symbiotic relationship with some new Internet type connection to information.What, you know what happens then?What. What is important? What is not important? Is privacy important when we're all gods?Elon MuskHaha.I mean I think the things that we think are important to keep private right now.Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskWe probably will not think are important.Joe RoganRight. Information.Right.What do you, what do you hide? Emotions? What are we hiding?Elon MuskI mean I think like. I don't know, maybe it's like embarrassing stuff.Joe RoganRight, Embarrassing stuff.Elon MuskBut there's actually like. I think people, there's like not that much that's kept private that people. That is actually relevant.Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskThat people would. Other people actually care about. You may think other people care about it, but they don't really care about it. And certainly governments don't.Joe RoganWell, some people care about it. But then it gets weird when you, when it gets exposed. Like Jennifer Lawrence, when all those naked pictures of her got exposed. Like I think in some ways people liked her more. They realized like she's just a person that just a girl who likes sex and is just alive and has a boyfriend and sends them messages and now you get to look into it and you probably shouldn't have, but somebody let it go and they put it online and.All right.Elon MuskShe seems to be doing okay.Joe RoganShe's a person. She's just you and me and it's the same thing. She's just in some weird place where she's on a 35 foot tall screen with music playing every time she talks.Elon MuskYeah, I mean I'm sure she's like not happy about it, but she's clearly doing fine.Joe RoganBut once this interface is fully realized where we really do become something far more powerful in terms of Our cognitive ability, our ability to understand irrational thoughts and mitigate them. And that we're all connected in some sort of an insane way. Our thoughts on wealth, our thoughts on social status. Like how many of those just evaporate?And our need for privacy, maybe our need for privacy will be the ultimate bottleneck that we'll have to. That we'll have to surpass.Elon MuskI think the things that we think are important now will probably not be important in the future. But there will be things that are important. What will be more important things?There might be some war of ideas potentially. I don't think Darwin's going away.Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskDarwin's gonna be there.Darwin will be there forever.Joe RoganForever. Yeah.Elon MuskIt would just be a different arena. Different arena.Joe RoganA digital arena.Elon MuskDifferent arena. Darwin's not going away.Joe RoganWhat keeps you up at night?Elon MuskWell, it's quite hard to run companies.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskEspecially car companies. I have to say. It's quite challenging.Joe RoganThe car business is the hardest one of all the things you do.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganBecause it's a consumer oriented business. As opposed to like SpaceX. And not that SpaceX is.Elon MuskSpaceX is no walk in the park, but a car company. It's very difficult to keep a car company alive. It's very difficult. You know there's only two car companies in the history of American car companies that haven't gone bankrupt. And that's Ford and Tesla. That's it. Yeah.Joe RoganFord rode out that crazy storm, huh? They're the only ones by the skin of their teeth. Shout out to the Mustang.Yeah, yeah. By the skin of their teeth. That is interesting. Right?Elon MuskSame with Tesla. We barely survived.Joe RoganHow close did you get to folding?Elon MuskVery close. We 2008 is not a good time to be a car company. Especially a startup car company and especially an electric car company. That was like stupidity squared.Joe RoganAnd this is when you had those cool roadsters with the T top. With a Targa top.Elon MuskYeah. We had like use a highly modified lease chassis. The body was all completely different by the way. That was a super dumb strategy that we actually did.Joe RoganWhy was it dumb?Elon MuskIt was based on two false premises. One false premise was that we'd be able to cheaply convert the Lotus Elise and use that as a car platform. And that we would be able to use technology from this little company called AC propulsion for the electric drivetrain and the battery problem is the AC propulsion technology did not work in production and we ended up using none of it in the long term.None of it. We had to redesign everything. And then once you add a battery pack an electric motor to the car. It got heavier. It got 30% heavier. Invalidated the entire structure, all the crash structure, everything had to be redone. Nothing like. I think it had. Less than 7% of the parts were common with any other device, including cars or Anything less than 7%?Yes.Joe RoganEverything, including tires and wheels, bolts, brakes.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganEven steering wheel.Elon MuskThe steering wheel was. I think the steering wheel was almost the same. Yes. The windscreen different? No, I think the windscreen is the same. Yes. I think we were able to keepJoe Roganthe windscreen Less than 7%. So that's basically every body panel was different.Elon MuskThe entire structure was different.We couldn't use the H. Like the H vac system. The air conditioner was a belt driven air conditioner. So now we needed something that was electrically driven, which needed a new ACJoe Rogancompressor and all that takes away from the battery life as well, Right?Elon MuskYeah. We needed a small, highly efficient air conditioning system that fit in a tiny car and was electrically powered, not belt driven. It was very difficult.Joe RoganHow much did those weigh, the. Those cars, the roadster?Elon MuskI think it was about £2,700. It's still very low, depending on which version. 2650-2750, something like that.Joe RoganAnd what was the weight distribution?Elon MuskIt was about 50. Well, there were different versions of the car. So it was about 55 on the rear. It was rear bias.Joe RoganRight. But not bad, like, considering, like a 911, which is like one of the most popular sports cars of all time. Heavy rear end bias.Elon MuskWell, I mean, yeah, the 911, I think the joke is like, they managed to do it despite Newton not being on their side.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskIf you're fighting Newton, it's very difficult. Well, it's like you've got this. The moments of inertia on a 911 don't make any sense.Joe RoganThey do once you understand them. Once you understand you don't want toElon Muskhang the engine off the ass. This is not a wise move.Joe RoganYou don't want to let up on the gas when you're in a corner.Elon MuskThe problem with a. With something that's where the engine is mounted over the rear axle or off the rear axle towards the rear is that your polar moment of inertia is fundamentally screwed. You cannot solve this. It's unsolvable. You're screwed. Polar moment inertia. You're screwed.Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskLike essentially, if you spun the car like a top, that's your polar moment of inertia. You're just.I promised I wouldn't swear on this show by the way, really?Joe RoganTo who?Elon MuskSo it's my friend.Joe RoganTell that friend to go himself. Who told you not to swear?Elon MuskA friend.Joe RoganIt's not a good friend.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganRealize you're Elon Musk. You can do whatever you want, man. If you ever get confused, call me.Elon MuskI'll swear in private. Swear up a storm.Joe RoganJust say frickin it's fun. Way those like old house moms, wives and shit that have children. Oh, this freaking thing.Elon MuskYeah. But anyway, like the Porsche, it's kind of incredible how well Porsche handles, given that. It's the physics. The moments of inertia are so messed up. To actually still make it work well. Is incredible.Joe RoganWell, if you know how to turn into the corner once you get used to the feeling of it, there's actual benefits to it, you know?Elon MuskThere are some benefits I enjoy. The car I had before Tesla was a 911.Joe RoganOh, okay. That was 997 or 6. Yeah, 997.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganYeah.Great car, man.Elon MuskYeah. I mean, particularly on the Porsche Turbo when they had the variable vanes.Joe RoganThe turbo.Elon MuskAnd you didn't have the turbo lag. That was great.Joe RoganYeah, that was really great.Elon MuskThe turbo lag was like, you know, you floor it, like, phone home, call your mom.Joe RoganThe older one.Elon MuskAbout an hour later, the car accelerates.Joe RoganAnd super dangerous too, because then the real world start spinning.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganYeah. There's something fun about it though. Like feeling that rear weight kicking around, you know, and again, efficient.Elon MuskHad a good feel to it. Yeah, Yeah, I agree.Joe RoganBut that's, that's what I was talking about earlier, about that little car that I have, the 93 911. It's just, there's. It's not fast, it's not. It's not the best handling car, but it's more satisfying than any other car I have because it's so mechanical. It's like everything about it like crackles and bumps and it gives you all this feedback and I take it to the Comedy Store because when I get there, I feel like my brain is just popping and it's on fire.It's like a strategy for me now that I really stopped driving other cars there. I drive that car there just for the brain juice, just for the inner, the interaction.Elon MuskI mean, you should try model SP100D.Joe RoganI'll try.Elon MuskBlow your mind your skull. Okay, yeah.Joe RoganTell me what to order. I'll order it.Elon MuskModel SP100D.Joe RoganOkay, Jamie, that's the best car that I drive. Okay, okay, I'll get with the car. You drive, okay?Elon MuskIt will blow your mind out of your skull.Joe RoganI believe you. How can I drive 300 miles? That's good for LA regular days.Elon MuskYou'll never notice the battery.Joe RoganNever?Elon MuskNever.Joe RoganHow hard is it to get like one of them crazy plugs installed in your house? That difficult?Elon MuskNo, it's super easy. It's like, it's like a dryer plug. It's like a dryer outlet.Joe RoganDidn't you come up with some crazy tiles for your roof that are solar paneled?Elon MuskYeah, yeah, we're have it on my roof right now actually. I'm just trying it out. It's like it. The thing is it takes a while to like test roof stuff because roofs have to last a long time. So like, you want your roof to last, like, could it 30 years overJoe Rogana regular roof now?Elon MuskSo there's two versions. There's like the solar panels you put on a roof. So like, depends on whether your roof's new or old. So if your roof's new, you don't want to replace the roof. You want to put like solar panels on the roof.Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskSo that's like retrofit, you know, and then we're trying to make the retrofit panels look real nice and then. But then the new product we're coming out with is if you, if you have a roof that's either you're building a house or you're going to replace your roof anyway, then you make the site. The tiles have solar cells embedded in the tiles.And then it's quite a tricky thing because you want to not see the solar cell behind the glass tile. So you have to really work with the glass and the various coatings and layers so that you don't see the solar cell behind the glass. Otherwise it doesn't look right.Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskSo it's really tricky.Joe RoganThere it is. Jamie put it up there. Yeah, and that looks good. Is there a.Elon MuskSee, like if you look closely you can see, if you zoom in, you can see the. So you can see the cell, but if you zoom out, you don't see the cell.Joe RoganRight. Well, it looks cool though.Elon MuskThat's hard. That's really hard because you have to have sunlight go through.Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskBut when it gets reflected back out, it hides the fact that there's a cell there.Joe RoganNow, are those available to the consumer right now?Elon MuskWell, we have, I think those onJoe Roganthat roof right there.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganThat's amazing. Oh, that looks good.Elon MuskYeah. Ooh, I like that one. Swart.Joe RoganOh. So you get that kind of fake Spanish looking thing. I like.Elon MuskThat's French slate.Joe RoganThat's white people in Connecticut smoking pipes. Look at that one. Yeah, that's badass, dude.Elon MuskSo actually work.Joe RoganI believe you. So the. The solar panels that are on that house that we just looked at, is that sufficient to power the entire home?Elon MuskIt depends on your energy, on how expensive. Yeah, yeah. So generally, yes, I would say it's probably for most, it's going to vary, but anywhere from more than you need to maybe half, like, call it half, to 1.5 of the energy that you need, depending on how much roof you have relative to living space and howJoe Roganridiculous you are with tv.Elon MuskTV is no problem.Joe RoganAir conditioning.Elon MuskAir conditioning. Air conditioning is the problem. If you have an efficient air conditioner and you don't. And depending on how, like, are you air conditioning rooms when they don't need to be air conditioned, which is very common because it's a pain in the neck. You know, it's like programming a VCR. It's like, now it's just the blinking 12.So people are just like, the hell with that. I'm just going to make it this temperature all day long.Joe RoganRight. They don't have a smart home where if you're in the room, then it stays cool. Right?Elon MuskYeah. It should predict when you're going to be home and then cool the room. The rooms that you're likely to use with a little bit of intelligence. We're not talking about like genius home here. We're just talking like elementary, basic stuff, you know, like if you could hook that into the car, like it knows you're coming home.Like, there's no point in cooling the home, keeping the home really cool when you're not there. But it can tell that you're coming home, it's going to cool it to the right temperature. Right.Joe RoganDo you have an app that works with your solar panels or anything like that?Elon MuskYeah, yeah, we do. But we need to hook it into the air conditioning to really make the air conditioning work.Joe RoganHave you thought about creating an air conditioning system? I know you have.Trick question.Elon MuskCannot answer questions about future potential.Joe RoganOkay, let's just let it go. We'll move on to the next thing.Elon MuskThat would be an interesting idea.Joe RoganYeah, I would say radiant heating, all that. Good ideas. Now when you. When you think about the efficiency of these homes and you think about implementing solar power and battery power and is there anything else that people are missing? Is there any other. Like, I just saw a smartwatch that is powered by the heat of the human body.It's some New technology.Elon MuskIt's able to fully power that way.Joe RoganI don't know if it's fully or if it's like this watch right here. This is a Casio, it's called a Pro Tec. And it's like an outdoors watch. And it's solar powered.Elon MuskOkay.Joe RoganAnd so it has the ability to operate for a certain amount of time on solar.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganSo if you have it exposed, it could function for a certain amount of time on solar. Yeah.Elon MuskWell, you know, like there's the self winding watches where you know, it's just got a weight in the watch and as you move your wrist, the weight moves from one side to the other and it winds the watch up. That's a pretty cool thing.Joe RoganYeah, yeah. Well, it's amazing that like Rolex is that it's all done mechanically. There's no batteries in there, there's no nothing.Elon MuskYeah, you could do the same thing. Create a little charger that's based on wrist movement. It really depends on how much energy your watch uses.Joe RoganYou know what's fucked up about that though? We accept a certain amount of like fuckery with those watches. Like, I brought my watch, I have a Rolex that my friend Lorenzo gave me and I brought it to the watch store and I said, this thing's always fast. I said it's always like after a couple months, it's like five minutes fast.And they go, yep. They go, yeah, it's just what it does. And I go, hold on. I go, so you're telling me that it just is always going to be fast? They like, yeah, it's just like every few months you got to like reset.Elon MuskIt seems like they should recalibrate that thing.Joe RoganThey can't. They tried. They say every few months, whether it's four months or five months or six months, it's going to be a couple minutes fast.Elon MuskOkay. It seems like they should really recalibrate that because if it's always fast, you can just, you know, delete those minutes.Joe RoganYou need to fucking kick down the door at Rolex and go, you bitches are lazy.Elon MuskIt's kind of amazing that you can keep time mechanically on a wristwatch with these tiny little gears.Joe RoganIt's amazing. Yeah, I mean the whole luxury watch market is fascinating. I'm not that involved in terms like I don't buy them, I bought them as gifts, so I don't buy them for myself. But when I look at them online with this one million dollar watches out there now that are like, they have like little rotating moons and stars and they, they live like, look at this thing.How much is that one? Jamie? These are fucking preposterous.Elon MuskI like gears.Joe RoganI love them.Elon MuskYeah, I think they're beautiful.Joe RoganBut there's some of these people that are just taking it right in the ass. They're buying these watches for like $750,000, Mike. Yo, that's a Timex, son. Nobody knows. It's not any better than some Casio that you could just buy online. Like, look at that, though. Well, here's the thing. If you're a person that doesn't just want to know the time, you want craftsmanship, you want some artisan's touch.You want innovation in terms of like a person figuring out how gears and cogs all line up perfectly to every time it turns over. It's basically a second. I mean, that's just. There's this art to that.Elon MuskYeah, I agree.Joe RoganYeah. It's not just telling time. I like this watch a lot, but if it got hit by a rock, I wouldn't be sad. Yeah, it's just a watch. It's a. It's a mass produced thing that runs on some quartz battery. But those things, that's. There's art to that.Elon MuskNo, I agree. It's beautiful.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskYeah. Love it.Joe RoganYeah. There's something. Something amazing about it. It's because it represents the human creativity. It's not just. It's not just electronic innovation. There's something. There's a person's work in that. Yes, but you don't have a watch on.Elon MuskNo.Joe RoganEver.Elon MuskI used to have a watch.Joe RoganWhat happened, Mike?Elon MuskMy phone tells the time.Joe RoganGood point. What if you lose your phone? Hold on, let me guess. You are a no case guy.Elon MuskThat's correct.Living on the edge. Living on the edge without a case.Joe RoganNeil DeGrasse Tyson. Neil DeGrasse Tyson was in here last week. I marveled at his ability to get through life without a case.Elon MuskThat's right.Joe RoganYou know, he takes his phone and he flips it in between his fingers like. Like a soldier would do with his rifle. He just rolls that shit in between his fingers.Elon MuskOkay.Joe RoganMarvelous.Elon MuskWow.Joe RoganHe says that's the reason why they do it. He said, would you look at someone who has a rifle? Why would they do that? Why would they flip it around like that?Elon MuskRight.Joe RoganSo that when it goes to drop, they have it in their hand, they catch it quickly. So that's what he does with his phone. He's just flipping his phone around all the time. I got that in Mexico. I was hoping it holds Joints.Elon MuskDoes it do anything? It seems to open. It's just a whole good storage store things in there.Joe RoganBut, like, try to put a joint in there, close it. You put like one. One blunt one. But it seems pretentious, you know, that's the idea behind it. I bought it when I was in Mexico because I figured it would be a good size to hold joints. Or fraud.Elon MuskSo is that a joint or is it a cigar?Joe RoganNo.Elon MuskOkay.Joe RoganIt's marijuana inside of tobacco.Elon MuskOkay, so it's like posh pot tobacco.Joe RoganNever had that.Elon MuskYeah, I think I tried one once.Joe RoganCome on, man.You probably can't because stockholders. Right.Elon MuskI mean, it's legal, right?Joe RoganIt's totally legal.Elon MuskOkay.Joe RoganHow does that work? Do people get upset at you if you do certain things?Tobacco and marijuana in there. That's all it is.The combination of tobacco and marijuana is wonderful. First turned onto it by Charlie Murphy and then reignited by Dave Chappelle. There you go.Elon MuskPlus whiskey. Exactly.Joe RoganPerfect balances it out.Elon MuskAlcohol is a drug. It's been grandfathered in.Joe RoganWell, it's not just a drug. It's a drug that gets a bad rap. Because if you just have a little.Elon MuskIt's great, fine. Yeah.Joe RoganA little sip here and there and your inhibitions are relaxed and it shows your true self and hopefully you're more joyous and friendly and happy and. And everything's good. The real worry is the people that can't handle it. Like, the real worry about people who can't handle cars that can go 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds or anything.Have you ever considered something that, like, imagine if one day everyone has a car that's on the same, at least technological standard as one of your cars, and everyone agrees that the smart thing to do is not just to have bumpers, but to perhaps have some sort of a magnetic repellent device. Something. Some electromagnetic field around the cars that, as cars come close to each other, they automatically radically decelerate because of magnets or something?Elon MuskWell, I mean, our cars break automatically. Break, yeah, yeah.Joe RoganWhen they see things.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganBut like a physical barrier, like.Elon MuskWell, the wheels work pretty well. The wheels do, yeah. Yeah, pretty well. Decelerated at, you know, 1.1 to 1.2 GS, that kind of thing.Joe RoganIs there a concern that one day all your cars will be on the road and then there'll still be regular people with regular cars 20, 30 years from now that'll get in the mix and be the main problem?Elon MuskYeah, I think it'd be sort of like it was a time of transition where there were horses and gasoline cars on the road at the same time. Must have been pretty weird.Joe RoganOh, that would be the weirdest.Elon MuskYeah. I mean, horses were tricky. You know, back in Manhattan had like 300,000 horses. You figure like a horse lives 15 years, got 20,000 horses dropping dead every day or every year. I should say every year is 20,000 horses. If there's 300,000 horses in 15 year lifespan.Joe RoganBack in the gangs in New York days, that movie. Yeah, yeah.Elon MuskIt's a lot of dead horses. And you need a horse to move the horse. Right. And they'll probably get pretty, pretty freaked out if they have to move a dead horse.Joe RoganDo you think they know what's going on?Elon MuskYeah, I mean, it's got to be, like, pretty weird. Like, no, I would imagine I dragging this dead, you know, horse around, and I'm a horse.Joe RoganDo you ever stop and think about your role in civilization? Do you ever stop and think about your role in the culture? Because me, as a person who never met you until today, when I think of you, you know, I've always thought of you as being this weirdo super inventor dude who just somehow or another keeps coming up with new shit.But there's not a lot of you out there like everybody else seems to be. I mean, obviously you make a lot of money. There's a lot of people that make a lot of money. You like that clock?Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganPretty dope.Elon MuskThis is a great clock.Joe RoganYeah. You want one? I'll get you one.Elon MuskSure.Joe RoganOkay. Done.Elon MuskI like weird things like this.Joe RoganOh, this is the coolest is TGT promotion. What is this? TGT Studios. TGT Studios.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganYeah. To a gentleman who makes all this by hand.Yeah, it's really cool.Elon MuskMy study is filled with weird devices.Joe RoganWell, get ready for another one. All right, I'm sending it your way.Elon MuskCool.Joe RoganYou want a werewolf, too? I'll hook you up.All right, I'll take one werewolf and one clock. Coming up. Do you think about your role in the culture? Because me, as a person who never met you until today, I've always looked at you and like, wow, like, how's this guy just keep inventing shit? Like, how do you. How do you keep coming up with all these new devices?And what do you ever consider how on you like, I had a dream once that there was a million Tesla's instead of like one Tesla, there was a million Teslas.Elon MuskOkay?Joe RoganNot Chesley the car, but Nikola.Elon MuskOh, yeah, sure.Joe RoganAnd that in his day, there was a million people like him, who were radically innovative. It was a weird dream, man. It was so strange. And I've had it more than once.Elon MuskResulted in very rapid technology innovation, that's for sure.Joe RoganIt's one of the only dreams in my life I've had more than one time. Okay, like where I've woken up and it's in the same dream. I'm in the same dream. And in this dream, it's 1940s, 1950s, but everyone is severely advanced. There's flying blimps with, like, LCD screens on the side of them, and everything's bizarre and strange.And it stuck with me for whatever reason. Obviously this is just a stupid dream, but for whatever reason, all these years, that stuck with me. Like, it takes one man like Nikola Tesla to have more than a hundred inventions that were patents. Right? I mean, he had some. It's pretty great, pretty fucking amazing ideas.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganBut there was. In his day, there was very few people like him.Elon MuskThat is true.Joe RoganWhat if there was a million? Like what?Elon MuskAnd then things would advance very quickly.Joe RoganRight? But there's not a million. Elon Musk says one. Motherfucker. Do you think about that or you just try to not.Elon MuskI don't think. I don't think you'd necessarily want to be me.Joe RoganWell, what's the worst part about it?Elon MuskI don't think people would like it that much.Joe RoganWell, most people wouldn't, but they can't be you. So that's like. That's like some superhero type shit, you know? You wouldn't want to be Spider Man. Rather just sleep tight in Gotham City. I hope he's out there doing his job.Elon MuskIt's very hard to turn it off.Joe RoganYeah. What's the hardest part?Elon MuskMight sound great if it's turned on, but what if it doesn't turn off?Joe RoganNow, I showed you the isolation tank and you've never experienced that before. I think that could help you turn it off a little bit. Just for the night.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganJust give you a little bit of sleep, a little bit of perspective. Magnesium that you get from the water as well, that makes you. Makes you sleep easier because the water has Epsom salts in it. But maybe some sort of strategy for sacrificing your biological. Not sacrificing, but enhancing your biological recovery time by figuring out a way, whether it's through meditation or some other ways, to shut off that.That thing at night. Like, you must have, like, a constant stream of ideas that's running through your head. All the.Getting text messages from chicks.Elon MuskNo, I'm getting text Messages from friends saying, what the hell are you doing smoking weed?Joe RoganIs that bad for you? It's legal. It's got approved.Elon MuskIt's not. You know, I'm not a regular smoker of weed.Joe RoganHow often you smoke it?Elon MuskAlmost never.I mean, I don't actually notice any effect.Joe RoganWell, there you go. There was a time where I think it was Ram Dass or someone gave some Buddhist monk a bunch of acid.Elon MuskOkay.Joe RoganAnd he ate it, and it had no effect on him.Elon MuskI doubt that.Joe RoganI would say that too, but I've never meditated to the level that some of these people have, where they're constantly meditating all day, they don't have any material possessions, and all of their energy is spent trying to achieve a certain mindset. I would like to cynically deny that. I'd like to cynically say they just fucking think the same way I do.They just hang out with flip flops on and make weird noises. But maybe.Elon MuskNo, you know, I. I know a lot of people like weed, and that's fine, but I don't find that it is very good for productivity.Joe RoganFor you?Elon MuskNot for me.Joe RoganYeah. I mean, I would imagine that for someone like you. It's not someone like you.It'd be more like a cup of coffee, right? You want to. You have a latte?Elon MuskYeah, it's more like the opposite of a cup of coffee.Joe RoganWhat do you like?Elon MuskIt's like a cup of coffee in reverse.Joe RoganOh, weed is.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganNo, I'm saying you would like more. More like, what would be beneficial to you would be like coffee.Elon MuskI like to get things done. I like to be useful. That is one of the hardest things to do, is to be useful.Joe RoganWhen you say you like to get things done in terms of, like, what gives you satisfaction when you complete a project, when something. Something that you invent comes to fruition and you see people enjoying it. That feeling.Elon MuskYes. Doing something useful for other people that I like doing.Joe RoganThat's interesting for other people,Elon Muskyes.Joe RoganSo that. Do you think that that is maybe the way you recognize that you have this unusual position in the culture where you can uniquely influence certain things because of this? I mean, you essentially have a gift, right? I mean, you would think it was a curse, but I'm sure it's been fueled by many, many years of dissonance, discipline, and learning.But you essentially have a gift and that you have this radical sort of creativity engine when it comes to innovation and technology. It's like you're just. You're going at a very high RPMs all the time. What is that?Elon MuskLike, doesn't stop. I don't know what would happen if I got into a sensory deprivation tank. Let's try Sounds concerning. It's like running the engine with no resistance that seems.Joe RoganIs that what it is though? Maybe it's not.Elon MuskMaybe it's fine. I don't know. I'll try it. I'll try it.Joe RoganHave you ever experimented with meditation or anything?Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganWhat do you do or what have you done, rather?Elon MuskI mean, you just sort of sit there and be quiet and then repeat some mantra which acts as a focal point. It's distill the mind. It distill the mind, but I don't find myself drawn to it frequently.Joe RoganDo you think that perhaps productivity is maybe more attractive to you than enlightenment or even the concept of whatever enlightenment means? Like, what are you trying to achieve when you're meditating all the time View. It seems like almost like there's a franticness to your creativity that comes out of this burning furnace.And in order for you to calm that thing down, you might have to throw too much water on it.Elon MuskIt's like a never ending explosion.Joe RoganWhat is it like? Try to explain it to a dumb person like me.What's going on?Elon MuskNever ending explosion.Joe RoganIt's just constant ideas just bouncing around.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganWhoo. Damn.Elon MuskYeah.Joe RoganSo when everybody leaves, it's just Elon sitting at home brushing his teeth. Just bunch of ideas bouncing around your head.Elon MuskYeah, all the time.Joe RoganWhen did you realize that that's not the case with most people?Elon MuskI think when I was, I don't know, five or six or something, I thought I was insane.Joe RoganWhy did you think you were insane?Elon MuskBecause it was clear that other people did not.Their mind wasn't exploding with ideas all the time.Joe RoganThey weren't expressing it, they weren't talking about it all. And you realize by the time you were five or six, like, oh, they're probably not even getting this thing that I'm getting.Elon MuskNo, it was just strange. It was like, hmm, I'm strange. That was my conclusion. I'm strange.Joe RoganBut did you feel diminished by it in any way? Like knowing that this is a weird thing that you really probably couldn't commiserate with with other people, they wouldn't understand you.Elon MuskI hope they wouldn't find out because they might, like, put me away or something. You thought that for a second? Yes.Joe RoganWhen you were little.Elon MuskYeah, I know. They put people away. What if they put me away?Joe RoganLike when you were little, you thought this.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganWow. Like you thought this is so radically different than the people that are around me. If they find out I got the stream coming in.Elon MuskYeah. Wow.But you know, I was only like five or six.Joe RoganDo you think this is like. I mean, there's, there's outliers biologically, you mean, there's people that are 7 foot 9, there's people who have giant hands, there's people that have eyes that are 2015 vision. There's always outliers.Do you feel like you like caught this? Like you have got some, you're like on some weird innovation, creativity sort of wave that's very unusual. Like you, you tapped into. I mean, just think of the, the various things you've been able to accomplish in a very short amount of time. And you're constantly doing this. That's a weird.You're a weird person.Elon MuskRight, I agree.Joe RoganYeah. Like what if there's a million Elon Musk's?Elon MuskWell, that would be very, very weird.Whoa. Yeah, that'd be pretty weird. I agree.Joe RoganReal weird.Elon MuskDefinitely.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskWhat if there are a million Joe Rogans?Joe RoganOh, there probably is. There's probably 2 million.I mean, I think that's the case with a lot of folks.Elon MuskYeah. I mean, but like, you know, my goal is like, try to do useful things.Try to maximize the probability the future is good.Make the future exciting. Something you look forward to, you know. You know, with, you know, with Tesla, we're like trying to make things that people love. You know, it's like not like how many, how many things can you buy that you really love, that really give you joy? So rare. So rare. I wish there were more things.That's what we try to just make things that somebody loves.Joe RoganWhen you, when you think about making things that someone loves, like do you specifically think about like what things would improve people's experience? Like what, what would change the way people interface with life that would make them more relaxed or more happy? You really think like when you're thinking about things like that, is that like one of your considerations?Like what, what could I do that would help people that maybe they wouldn't be able to figure out?Elon MuskYeah, like what are the set of things that can be done to make the future better? Like, you know, like. So I think a future where we are a space faring civilization and out there among the stars, this is very exciting. This makes me look forward to the future. This makes me want that future. You know, there are things, there need to be things that make you look forward to waking up in the morning, you wake up in the morning you look forward to the day, look forward to the future.In a future where we are a space faring civilization and out there among the stars, I think that's very exciting. That is a thing we want.Whereas if you knew we would not be a space frying civilization, but forever confined to Earth, this would not be a good future. That would be very sad. I think it would be sad.Joe RoganDon't want a sad future of just the finite lifespan of the Earth itself and the solar system itself. That even though it's possibly, you know, I mean, how many, how long do they feel like this sun and the solar system is going to exist? How many hundreds of millions of years?Elon MuskWell, it's probably. If you're saying when does the sun boil the Oceans?Joe RoganRightElon Muskabout 500 million years.Joe RoganSo is it sad that we never leave because in 500 million years that happens? Is that what you're saying?Elon MuskNo, I just think like if there are two futurists and one futurists who are out there among the stars and the things we read about in, see in science fiction movies, the good ones are true. We have these starships and we're going to see what other planets are like. We're a multi planet species and the scope and scale of consciousness is expanded across many civilizations and many planets and many star systems.This is a great future.This is a wonderful thing to me. And that's what we should strive for.Joe RoganMmm. But that's biological travel. That's cells traveling physically to another location.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganDo you think that's definitely where we're going?Elon MuskNo.Joe RoganYeah, I don't think so either. I used to think so and now I'm thinking more likely less than ever, like almost every day less likely.Elon MuskWe can definitely go to the moon and Mars.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskDo you think we can go to the asteroid belt and we can go to the moons of Jupiter, Saturn, we even get to Pluto.Joe RoganThat'd be the craziest place ever. If we colonized Mars and re terraformed it and turned into like a big Jamaica.Just. I think we should, I mean imagine.Elon MuskGreat, that'd be great.Joe RoganIt's potent, there's amazing. Right. We turn the whole thing into Cancun. Well, I mean over time it wouldn'tElon Muskbe easy, but yes.Joe RoganRight. It's.Elon MuskYou could just. You could warm it up.Joe RoganYeah, you can warm it up. You could add air, you get some water there. I mean over time, hundreds of millions of years or whatever it takes.Elon MuskWe'd be a multi planet species.Joe RoganThat would be amazing.Elon MuskMulti planet Species.Joe RoganThat's what we want to be like air conditioned. Saturn.Elon MuskI'm pro human.Joe RoganMe too. Yeah, me too.Elon MuskI love humanity. I think it's great.Joe RoganWe're glad as a robot that you love humans because we love you too. And we don't want you to kill us and eat us.Elon MuskI mean, you know, strangely, I think a lot of people don't like humanity and see it as blight, but I do not.Joe RoganWell, I think one of those. I think part of that is just they've been, you know, they've been struggling. When people struggle, they associate their struggle with other people. They never internalize their problems. They look to other people as holding them back. And people suck and fuck people and it's just, you know, it's a never ending cycle.But not always. Again, most people are really good. Most people. Vast majority.Elon MuskThis may sound corny, it does sound corny. But love is the answer.Joe RoganIt is the answer.Elon MuskYep.Joe RoganYeah, it is. It sounds corny because we're all scared, you know, we're all scared of trying to love people being rejected or someone taking advantage of you because you're trying to be loving.Elon MuskSure.Joe RoganBut if we all could just relax and love each other,Elon Muskwouldn't hurt to have more love in the world.Joe RoganIt definitely wouldn't hurt. Yeah, it'd be great.Elon MuskYeah, we should do that.Joe RoganYeah, I agree, man.Elon MuskReally?Joe RoganHow do you get to fix that? You have a love machine that you're working on?Elon MuskNo, but probably spend more time with your friends and less time on social media.Joe RoganNow deleting social media from your applications, from your phones that give you 10% boost to happiness. What do you think the percentage is?Elon MuskI think probably something like that.Joe RoganYeah. Good. 10%. Yeah.Elon MuskI mean, I mean, the only thing I've kept is Twitter because I kind of like need some means of getting a message out, you know?Joe RoganRight.Elon MuskThat's about it.So far, so good.Joe RoganWell, what's interesting with you, you actually occasionally engage with people on Twitter.Elon MuskYeah, it's.Joe RoganWhat percentage of that is a good idea?Elon MuskGood question.Joe Rogan10%. Right.It's hard.Elon MuskIt's mostly, I think it's on balance more good than bad. But there's definitely some bad. So do you ever. Hopefully the good outweighs the bad.Joe RoganDo you ever think about how odd it is? The weird feeling that you get when someone says something shitty to you on Twitter and you read it? The weird feeling. This is a weird little negative jolt. It's like a subjective negative jolt of energy that you don't really need to Absorb. But you do anyway. Well, fuck this guy.Fuck him.Elon MuskI mean, there's a lot of negativity on Twitter.Joe RoganIt is. But it's a weird. It's in its form, like, the way if you ingest it, as if you're like. You try to be like a little scientist as you're ingesting it, you're like, what? How weird is this? And I'm even getting upset at some strange person saying something mean. To me, it's not even accurate.Elon MuskI mean, there are a vast number of negative comments.For the vast majority, I just ignore them. The vast majority.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskBut every now and again, you're drawn in. Good.Joe RoganIt's not good.Elon MuskMake mistakes.Joe RoganYes, you can make mistakes.Elon MuskMake some mistakes.Joe RoganWe're all human. We can make mistakes. Yeah, it's hard. And people love it when you say something and you take it back. They're like, fuck you, we saved it forever. Fucking screenshot. That shit, bitch. You had that thought. You had that thought like, well, I deleted it. Not good enough. You had the thought, I'm better than you.I never had that thought. You had that thought, you piece of shit. Look, I saved it. I put it on my blog.Elon MuskYeah. I'm not sure why people think that anyone would think that deleting a tweet makes it go away. It's like, hello, Been the Internet for a while.Joe RoganYeah. Well, it's even like, the thing is, they don't forever want you to be able to delete it, because the problem is, if you don't delete it and you don't believe it anymore, it's really hard to say, hey, that thing above. I don't really believe that anymore. I changed my way. The way I view things.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganBecause people go, well, fuck you. I have that over there. I'm gonna just take that. I'm not gonna pay attention. That shit you wrote on your.Elon MuskIt's on your permanent record forever, bro.Joe RoganLike high school.Elon MuskWe'll put this on your permanent record.Joe RoganYeah, it's like a tattoo. You keep it.Elon MuskOh, yeah.Joe RoganYeah. Well, it's. It's this thing where there's. It's. It's a. There's a lack of compassion. It's a lack of compassion issue. People just, like, intentionally shitty to each other all the time online and trying to catch. It's. They're more. Trying to catch people doing something that's arrestable. Like a cop trying to, like, get, you know, arrests on his.His record. It's like they're trying to catch you or something more than they're logically looking at it, thinking it's a bad thing that you've done or that it's an idea they don't agree with so much they need to insult you, trying to catch you.Elon MuskYeah. I mean, it's way easier to be mean social media than it is to be mean in person.Joe RoganYes.Elon MuskWay easier.Joe RoganYeah.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganIt's weird. It's. It's not a normal way of human interacting. It's cheating. You're not supposed to be able to interact so easily with people we're not looking at.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganYou would never do that. You'd never be so mean to somebody looking in their eyes. And if you did, you'd feel like shit.Elon MuskMost people.Joe RoganYeah. Unless you're a sociopath, you'd feel terrible.Elon MuskYes.Joe RoganElon Musk, this has been a pleasure.Elon MuskYeah, likewise.Joe RoganIt really has been.Elon MuskIt's been an honor. Thank you for having me.Joe RoganThanks for doing this because I know you don't do a lot of long form stuff like this. I hope I didn't weird you out and I hope you don't get mad that you smoke weed. It's not bad. It's legal. We're in California. This is just as legal as this whiskey we've been drinking.Elon MuskExactly.Joe RoganThis is all good, right?Elon MuskCheers.Joe RoganThank you. Is there any message you would like to put out other than love is the answer? Because I think you really nailed it with that.Elon MuskNo, I think, you know, I think people should be nicer to each other and give people. And give. Give more credit to others and don't assume that they're mean until you know they're actually mean.You know, just. It's easy to demonize people.You're usually wrong about it. People are nicer than you think.Give people more credit.Joe RoganI couldn't agree more. And I want to thank you not just for all the crazy innovations you've come up with and your constant flow of ideas, but that you choose to spread that idea, which is. It's. It's very vulnerable, but it's very honest. And I. It resonates with me. And I believe it. I believe it's true, too. So thank you all you assholes out there.Be nice. Be nice. Bitch. All right. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Elon.Elon MuskThank you.Joe RoganGood night, everybody.