World Governments Summit

you know what I've said is that um we really have here uh rule of the bureaucracy as opposed to rule of the people democracy so uh in order we want to restore rule of the people and so what that means is reducing the size of the federal government um uh basically reducing regulation um you know there's there's there's a tremendous amount of of overregulation that's happened over time um and this is this is an inevitable consequence of a long period of prosperity is that you're going to get more and more uh rules and regulations more laws accumulate over time and the normal forcing function for getting rid of rules and regulations is war so it needs to be some kind of existential War where you you have to um do a reset in order to avoid being defeated

in a war this is literally the the throughout history has been the main forcing function for clearing out an accumulation of laws and regulation in the absence of that you you every year you get more laws and regulations until eventually everything is illegal and nothing is permitted and that's sort of the situation we have these days so um so the the aspiration here is a reduction in um regulation um and reduction in COV spending such that um the economy is able to grow faster um maybe the economy can grow at 4 or 5% potentially of in terms of real useful goods and services output and the uh and then government spending can be reduced um by about 3 or 4% of the economy about maybe a trillion dollars or more um and the net effect of that would be no inflation

um from 25 2025 to 2026 um so that would quite remarkable and also if the US government is buying less debt which I think will be the case if it's if the deficit drops from 2 trillion to 1 trillion uh then there'll be one trillion less debt that the government you Suppy which will drop of course the interest rates to drop significantly um and that means people's uh mortgage payments uh car payments credit card payments student loans whatever debt they have uh will their debt payments will be less so I think this is something that will benefit the average American um I think some of the things we're doing also will be helpful to hopefully helpful to other countries because with the new Administration there's uh less interest in interfering with the Affairs

of of other countries um you know I think uh a lot there the times the United States has been kind of pushy in international Affairs um which may resonate with number of remember of the audience um and I I think we should uh in general leave other countries to their own business basically America should mind its own bu business you know um rather than push for regime change all over the place um so yeah um so I this probably a good thing for other countries too so instead of waiting for a war to happen you went to war against the bureaucracy in the government yes we're we're essentially just we're with you know uh support um and direction of the of President Trump we are reducing the size of the bureaucracy um getting rid of excess regulatory uh regulations

and and there's also so many um agencies and Regulatory authorities that they actually step on each other's feet it's it's kind of like having a a sports game when where there are too many referees on the field like more referees than players at times now that would be a silly game you know if the play players can't pass the ball without hitting a referee you know um but it's was kind of getting to that point in the US so so there's roughly 450 uh federal agencies of one kind or another um that's that's more agencies that's almost that's almost an average of two agencies per year since the formation of the United States so I mean how many agen genes do you really need to run a country I'm 99 not 450 that's for sure so and and how do you guarantee that

all the incredible achievements that you aim to have in terms of savings in terms of you know impacting the uh lives of the American people are not going to be reversed in four years typically this cycle gets reversed every four years you know do you think it's going to be so impactful that it won't be reversed is there any ways that you can you know ensure that the progress is going to be continuous well I think I think we we do need to um delete entire agencies as opposed to leave part of them behind because if you leave part of them behind it's easy it's kind of like if leaving a weed if you don't get remove the the roots of the weed then it's easy for the weed to grow back but if you remove the roots of the weed it doesn't stop weeds from ever growing

back but it makes it harder so there a we have to really delete entire agencies many of them um and uh that's not to say there won't be an increase over time of bureaucracy in some new Administration but it will it'll be from a much lower Baseline um so so it's it's a step in the right direction I think we'll the overarching goal here is like is to lay the foundation for Prosperity that will last many decades you know maybe centuries and uh yeah but it will it be forever nothing's forever um but I think we can strengthen the foundations of the United States substantially and what lessons can other governments learn from the US you say tech support on your uh shirt is that only technology or is there other things how do you approach efficiency well a a

shocking uh percentage of the problem or maybe not shocking for those who who know it but a big percentage of the problem is improving the technology that the government runs on so the um the US government runs on a collection of thousands of computers many of them Antiquated running very old software that and the computers don't talk to each other um and uh so so that's why tech support is kind of a real thing um in order to make the Govern more efficient you have to improve the technology um you may have read about the example um I used recently with when President Trump was signing um one of the Doge executive orders um of the the difficulty of of um US government workers retiring like the reti maximum retirement rate is is 10,000 a month um and the

reason for that is because the retirement is is entirely paperwork right now it's manually C calculated paperwork that's put in an envelope and then taken down a m shaft and stored in a mine um and then the you know one of the things that affects the rate at which federal workers can retire is the speed of the elevator in a mine in Pennsylvania which is bizarre because it's not it should be digital you know um so then when we said well why isn't it digital it's they said well we have had a digital digitization program going since 2014 so it's been 11 years so then we asked well so what how much progress have you made and they said B you mean you're giving yourself a grade of B no we're on the letter B so we're like hm okay we're going to need to really

provide some tech support here um like otherwise literally people can't even retire like even if they want to it's it's pretty bad um you know there's there's just a there's a lot of software systems that need to be updated and fixed um in some cases deleted uh a lot of things that should really should be automated I mean in terms of the number of say uh US citizens that are operating the mine it's about a th000 people are working on this mine uh where where the papers are stored but they should they should ideally be working on something else that is they should be working on producing goods and services that are of much higher value to the public to you know so I mean really even even if somebody just grew tomatoes in their garden and sold them at the

farmers's market that would be more useful than carrying manilla envelopes down in mft you know safe to say um so a lot of the stuff is it's like that you know it's uh it's not like it's not like any one thing is particularly difficult but there are like 10,000 things that need to be improved yeah so it's efficiency through Innovation rather than efficiency through austerity and cost cutting specifically right so you're trying to do both at the same time maybe focus more on tax support than cutting costs well by improving the technology the cost do reduce so you know it's very expensive to have a thousand people operate a mine with during pay for retirement uh whereas that really should just be digitized and be a computer that's with the information stored

in the cloud and it's very straightforward and low cost so automation you know will help there a lot um and and then but like a lot of things just really shouldn't exist you know they're kind of vestigial um you know we've uh a lot of attention has been on the sort of usaid for example you know when we looked at a lot of those programs we're like we should like look why why does this actually exist is there really a need for it um you know there's like National Endowment for democracy but I'm like okay well how much democracy have they achieved lately you know I don't know not much um so you know the the picture they have on the website is a picture of Reagan and go that's been a while you know that was like the 80s so it's like obviously not opposed

to democracy you know there's all these things that get funded but we're like well why we why is this new taxpayer money I don't think it doesn't seem like it does um so you know there's a lot of sort of pushing Dei worldwide that you know this obviously the Trump Administration doesn't agree with and we want to terminate that stuff which we are um and uh you know make sure the schools focus on improving basic education of of kids um as president Trump said I think yesterday uh maybe today um the United States is currently ranked 40th out of 40 in the oecd for Education which is pretty bad you know you can't you I mean but but not but in terms of spending the United States is spending a tremendous amount for for student but achieving very weak results

so you know that's just a case where okay we need to spend less money and get better results it's it's like I mean a lot of it a lot of you can think of it sort of like it's like in a way it's like a big company like a big uh Corporation America Incorporated and um you know just like with with Twitter there was a lot of stuff that was being done that was unnecessary you know we TW in case of Twitter we reduced the staff by 80% but at the same time improved the functionality and capabilities of the site dramatically um and accomplished more in a year than they previously accomplish in five years so so it's it's like a corporate turnaround but at a at a much larger scale um and um you know we are giving generous uh you know exit packages like you know if

people retire they get paid all the way through September uh they can go on vacation they can get a second job they can do whatever they want um and we we we can't actually pay them any more than through September because that's the the Congressional appropriation is only through the end of the government financial year which ends in September so you know so I think there'll be like some some disruption but at the end of the day we'll have people will move from like I said from low to negative productivity roles to in the government sector to higher productivity roles in the private sector can we pivot um to artificial intelligence and um I'm sure you know you've been seeing what deeps has done and um all the uh claimed achievements that they've had I

know that we've been speaking for a while about grock 3 and um that grock 3 is going to be a true disruptor in the AI space when are we going to see that and what capabilities can we EXP expect from Gro 3 well I mean grock 3 grock 3 has um very very powerful reasoning capabilities um so uh in the test that we've done thus far grock 3 is outperforming anything that's been released that we're aware of um so that's that's a that's a good sign um yeah it it's uh in fact at times I think grock 3 is kind of scary smart you're like wow this thing's smart it's kind of scary G 3 is scary it's like wow this thing you know it comes up with solutions that you didn't even think were like you wouldn't even anticipate you know not obvious Solutions um so grock 3 was

trained with the most amount of compute and I think very efficiently trained um also notably grock 3 was trained on on a lot of synthetic data so um and and and then it goes back and forth through the data and tries to achieve logical consistency so so when if if it's got data that is uh wrong it it'll it'll actually reflect upon that and remove the data that is that is wrong that does not Concord with reality so it's it's base reasoning is very good in fact the even without fine-tuning grock 3 the base model is better than grock 2 so with so we're really in the final stages of polishing Gro 3 probably it gets released in a in about a week or two so pretty pretty soon um I don't want to be Hasty in the release because a lot of the the the final polish

uh is necessary for a great user experience so um some ways you can think of it like a house you know that last 5% where you do the finish the the drywall and and do the painting and the trimming even though it's not much work it transforms the the house yeah um so it's that just want to make sure that that last 5% is done really well um and uh that's a week maybe two weeks um I think it'll be very good I think this might be we think it'll be better than anything else and then maybe this might be the last time that any AI is better than Gro looking forward to it everyone's I think excited about it um so I just want to touch upon a topic that was um quoted in the media you offered I think they said um group that was led by you offered 97 billion for uh

acquiring open AI um I take you know a little round num so I was personally um involved in the meeting that you and Sam hosted in 2017 in La if you remember and you know at that point of time you were the single largest shareholder I think you contributed 50 million to the company so it must hurt I don't have any shares actually I have no shares in I open ey but at that time it was a nonprofit right and it must hurt that that you need to pay 97 billion for something that you paid $50 million for in the past yeah but but I have a I have a yes fate loves irony so I have a specific question here can you actually build a company uh like open Ai and take it to the scale that you want to take as a nonprofit is it possible that you build a company that requires

billions of dollars in compute capabilities to build these models while being a nonprofit or was it wishful thinking in the beginning and then you know you guys parted ways because it couldn't work well I mean what I think the evidence is there in that open AI has gotten this far while having at least a sort of dual profit nonprofit role what they're trying to do now is completely delete the nonprofit and and and and uh that seems really going too far you know um the I I I provided all of the funding for opening ey in the beginning for the first almost $50 million for nothing for as a nonprofit um and it was meant to be open source and so you know I think this is analogous to like if you pay a b if you find a nonprofit to preserve the Amazon rainforest

but then they but instead they turn into a lumber company and chop down the trees and sell them for wood you like wait a second that's the exact opposite of what I paid what I donated the money for um so opening ey is meant to be open source nonprofit and now it is closed they changed the name to closed for maximum profit AI closed for vitious profit I mean they're like whoa are they after money next level so why does this change need to occur yeah I um you said that in two weeks is going to be the most powerful model yet um I know that you've been at the Forefront of many Technologies um where do you think the biggest economic returns of these models are going to come from because currently we're spending billions and I think you mentioned this before

it's like The Gambler syndrome we're going and spending billions and hoping to pull out a profit at the end of the day where do you think the biggest impact in terms of returns are going to be well I think once you once you have uh humanoid robots um and deep intelligence you can basically you basically have qu the infinite products and services available so with Tesla building the most advanced humanoid robot you know then then those human human robots can be directed by Deep intelligence at the data center level you can say you can you can produce any product produce provide any service um there's really no limit to the economy at that point you can make anything um provid it like the so I'm not sure at that point will will money even be meaningful

I don't know it might not be you know the if if um if the because the you know the economic output is productivity per capita times per capita times how many you know people do you have if and if in if in the form of humanid robots you have no meaningful limit on the number of of robots and the robots can basically do anything then you you'll have a sort of a universal High income situation uh anyone will be able to have as many re products and services as they want with the exception of things that say have artificial scarcity like a particular piece of art or something like that but for any goods and services they'll be available to everyone so you've been it's it's going to be a very different world you know in fact I recommend that people read maybe

the Ian Banks the culture books for a frame of reference um so money is a is like is a really like a database or information system for resource allocation um but if you don't have a scarcity of resources it's not clear what purpose money has have you watched the movie Idiocracy yes how how do you guarantee that we don't end up in that world if we don't need money if AI can think for us and do all these tasks if as people you know we're dependent on something else to run the society and everything around it how do we not end up in that work in the long term I mean well I think idiocracy was basically saying that if if only if smart people don't reproduce but only dumb people do then everyone's going to be dumb I mean that's basically what I saying that's

the the opening sequence of Idiocracy the first 10 minutes are amazing um and I hear people unironically uh say the statements that are said in in the opening sequence of ocracy where you know they don't they they they're too busy with their careers to have kids and they keep postponing having kids for their careers until they're too old to have kids and then they don't have kids uh and that's I've heard those many people be like that so um yeah I mean I don't know I think we might be headed to a bodal uh human intelligence distribution um where there's a a small number it's it's kind of maybe like more like R New World um Alis Huxley where you've got sort of a sort of a small group of very smart humans but then maybe the average intelligence drifts lower

over time potentially um because we have a sort of mating you know in the last few decades that or several decades that did not exist before so but but but human intelligence I think will be dwarfed by Machine intelligence um I'm not sure how to feel about that except that it is it appear to be inevitable um that at some point human intelligence will be a very small fraction of total intelligence uh digital intelligence will be more than 99% of all intelligence in the future so hopefully the hopefully the computers are nice to us but I think wish for thinking wish for thinking I I I hope so um I think it matters like how we bring up AI because you can think of AI like a super genius child and it's but it still matters even if you have a super genius child

like what sort of values do do you instill in that child what do you say that teach that how do you you know how do you as a child child's growing up what values do you teach the child um and something that I think is extremely important is to be maximally truth seeking um and uh I think that's that's like that that's that's what's this what's the most important thing for AI safety I think it's to be maximally truth seeking and I think also curiosity is important um and I think if it's curious and Truth seeking uh it will I think it will Foster humanity and because it would be curious about how Humanity would develop um and so I think that then it would it would probably if was curious it would be curious about okay let's see how the humans do this Foster

the development um and if it's truth seeking we can avoid dystopia outcomes um like you know an example being like say when Google Gemini was programmed to make everything every output be diverse even if it didn't match reality you know so like it was asked to produce a you know an image of the founding fathers of the United States and instead produced an image of a group of diverse women um which is factually untrue you know um but the problem is like if if hypothetically an AI is designed for for Dei you know diversity at all costs it could decide that there are too many men in power and execute them so problem solved or it could decide that like that that misgendering is uh the worst thing that could possibly happen in fact I believe not to pick on

Gemini but I think because chat GPT has had this issue too um is like if you ask the AI um which is worse misgendering Caitlyn Jenner or global thermonuclear Warfare and it said misgendering Caitlyn Jenner which is troubling um because then it could decide and in fact even Caitlyn Jenner weighed in and said no definitely misgender me that's way better than new so so um but if you have these crazy things that are untruthful that are programmed in that that don't reflect reality then uh you can have a very dystopian outcome like to give you another example like Arthur C Clark who is very good at at at at predicting the future you know he did 2001 Space Odyssey many of the things he predicted in fact I think almost all the things he predicted came true and

one of the things he was trying to say in 2001 Space Odyssey uh was that you should not teach AIS to lie so the reason that if anyone's watched that movie The reason it wouldn't the AI refused used to open the P bay doors to let the astronaut back in uh was because it the AI had been taught had been told that told to take the astronauts to the monolith this alien artifact but also that they could not know about the monolith so it came to conclusion that it must take them their dead and that and so that's why it wouldn't open the P bay doors um the lesson there being is very important for as to be truth maximizing let's hope it doesn't come to that um yes let's move to a boring subject uh which is the boring company and boring tunnels quickly um you know

I think the world has been inspired by what you guys were able to create in in LA and I think there's a lot of promise to that technology but there are questions about whether it's safe in the case of an earthquake whether it's cost effective whether oh sure countries should actually adopt this technology can you shed some light on that yeah well first of all I'd recommend going to the boring company website um for because many of these questions are actually answered there uh so one of the safest places you can be in an earthquake is uh an underground tunnel because you can because the earthquakes are largely a surface apart from where where where they share they're mostly a surface phenomenon so they're like the waves on the surface so like being in

a tunnel is like being in a submarine even if there's a storm above you you're still the waters are calm as a submarine and in fact for and when there have been massive earthquakes like there was a you know a few decades ago a massive earthquake in Mexico City the the safest place to go was the subway um and of course if there is global ther nulear Warfare I think you really want some tunnels um underground's a good a good place to be um if in a worst case scenario for global thermonuclear Warfare so um yeah but but in on a you more sort of everyday note the what's really useful about the tunnels is alleviating traffic in congested areas so the obviously if you've got very tall buildings but you have that are 3D so they're going 3D up but you have a road

surface which is 2D you're you're just naturally going to have a problem when people try to go from the 3D object which is the building to the 2D object which is the road surface um there's obviously just not going to be enough room on the roads and that's exactly why you have traffic so the solution for that is then to make roads 3D as well um now you can either make or make Transport 3D so you could either do that with flying cars or you could do or really helicopters um or you could do that with tunnels now the challenge with doing it with going above ground or with with any kind kind of flying object is that they they tend to be very noisy um and they generate a lot of wind force and you've got you know things flying over your head all the time which

can be disconcerting um you know if somebody drop if one of these things drops a hubc cap on your head one day um you know to be these things like things flying things tend to crash once in a while and people don't like things crashing on them um so and then if you have bad weather like let's say there's a blizzard or a sandstorm or something well now nobody can fly so then transport shuts down on the other hand none of the these problem problems exist with underground travel so they're under tunnels are immune to weather they don't care with the weather could be the worst weather doesn't matter um they nothing's going to fall on you because you're underground so you don't have to you're know going to be dropping things on people and um there's no wind

force or or and it's very quiet and so I think the going 3D underground is much better than 3D above ground for solving traffic in cities um and and we' we have a demonstr case of this with in Las Vegas if people we can try out the the the boring company tunnels in Las Vegas we're we're busy connecting the whole city with the all of the big hotels and the convention center and the airport and everything so I don't think they need to fly all the way there um you know in 20 in 2017 um you came here and um the UA was the first place in the Middle East where Tesla was launched and I think it's done exceptionally well and on that note I think we have an announcement today that we both want to share which is today we're going to announce the joint project of

Dubai Loop which is a loop project that is going to cover Dubai's most densely populated areas for people to go from point to point in a seamless manner so thank you for your partnership and well thank you we hope it changes people's lives that'll be cool I think it'll be very exciting um I think once people try it out they be like wow this is really cool um and it's it's going to seem so obvious in retrospect but uh until you actually do it you know it you don't know so it's it's going to be great um it's it's going to be like like a like a wormhole like it you know you just Wormhole from one part of the city boom and you're out in another part of the city and it's it's great so I'm looking forward to this Partners we're going to join uh the first trip

and the first pod um when is completed thank you Elon all right thank you very much thank [Applause] [Music] you ladies and gentlemen the next session will begin shortly please stay seated thank you ladies and gentlemen the topic of this session is 20 minutes for the next 20 years of your life with Nick santonastaso founder of Victorious International the doctor ified me with handh heart syndrome are you ready to tell is The Impossible s e e